A question for psychics

[Mulder]

I know we sometimes get psychics on this forum so I have a question for you.

What was your first ever psychic experience? Also, what did you think it was at the time and did you change your mind subsequently? If so, why?

OK, that's three questions ...:smiley:

Thanks.

PS: To increase the number of replies, people who once thought they were psychic (I think there are some of those on here too) can also reply.

[lara123]

hi,ill tell you my first significant experience.I say that because although i did have experiences before they were nothing i could validate.

But this was my first experience with mediumship.I was in my house alone and suddenly i felt a prod in my back,followed by a few seconds later i heard a whisper of a mans name.Despite i couldnt see anything i felt my friends recently passed on father close,although the name i heard was not his.Ive talked a bit already on this 'feeling' of knowing someones there and i felt it the first time and knew it was him.But i was confused,i had no belief in anything like this and i chose to dismiss it and decided it was my imagination in the end.The next day,i felt him again,i could feel vibrations in the room that were sinking into me.I had loads of thoughts swimming around my head,such as..how did i know it was him? i had no answer other than i knew it.Again,i put it to the back of my mind and decided to let go of this strange happening.

The next time i saw my friend i casually mentioned her father and asked if he was named after someone.She told me that the name she had told me was not her fathers real name,it was....the one i got.I was so shaken up she had to know.She told me she believed in the afterlife[i didnt know this before]and i told her i didnt!It was just a weird thing happening to me and to report back if i got more.

The following days,i was sensing him stronger,and by now i was seeing him,not as clear as a person here,but clear enough,i was seeing him walking around my house on a daily basis wearing different clothes.Now i was hearing full sentences.I made notes.I had messages given that my friend had not told me,of family history,the decor of his house and allsorts.I remember one was a specific ornament he kept on his table,a vase of blue plastic flowers.Not a usual ornament a single man might have,my friend knew i had never seen or heard of these.I was beginning to get shocked now,it was all getting validated.Every single bit.

He told me he would be with me for a year continually,and he was,exactly a year almost daily.I was decribing outfits i saw him in that my friend could not remember until she found them in old photos,which i had never seen.I knew his favourite foods,dislikes and some personal information that shocked her,she had told no-one.Hundreds and hundreds of information,every bit accurate.

It was after this year i got another shock.It never crossed my mind i would get more spirit people,i had presumed that was it.I got other relatives of hers that were giving me information that she denied.Upon checking properly she found i was right.I had my own greatgrandmother come through then passing messages.For weeks her son[my father] was telling me i was wrong,that he would know about his own grandmother.I never faultered,i knew i was right,and he did weeks of research and i was.

I don't always feel them this strong but when i do its a doddle to deliver messages.And so it continued,most of the time when i'm with people i sense someone,if i dont i always have got some psychic information on them.During that first week also,like nasib,i began seeing colours around people and still experiment with this.I can always see my own energy,not very often colour but i can see and feel the grey/blue haze energy.You may want to give it a go and see if you can too.Many non-psychics are able to if they persevere and know how to look for it.Let me know.

[bindeweede]

Lara,

I continue to find this difficult to understand............

I can always see my own energy,not very often colour but i can see and feel the grey/blue haze energy.You may want to give it a go and see if you can too.Many non-psychics are able to if they persevere and know how to look for it.Let me know.

[lara123]

what exactly?

[Julia]

If I persevere in looking at ANYTHING very intently for any length of time I can see a faint, fuzzy aura around it. Even more impressive, I can actually make things disappear! I see no reason to invoke magical powers, though. It's simply due to oddities of normal vision we never notice in everyday life.

[Mulder]

Thanks Lara.

hi,ill tell you my first significant experience.I say that because although i did have experiences before they were nothing i could validate.

Can you tell me what your FIRST psychic experience was and what you thought it was?

[bindeweede]

Lara,

I continue to find this difficult to understand............

I can always see my own energy,not very often colour but i can see and feel the grey/blue haze energy.You may want to give it a go and see if you can too.Many non-psychics are able to if they persevere and know how to look for it.Let me know.

Lara,

When you say you can see your own energy, I presume you mean in a mirror. Are those mirrors in your own home, or all mirrors, say, in a department store? Also can other people see your energy? Would another person need to have psychic powers to see your energy?

I think you said you can see other people's energy. Are there different "qualities" of energy, or perhaps "intensity" might be a better word? Does the colour you see - blue/grey or any other - make any difference?

[lara123]

If I persevere in looking at ANYTHING very intently for any length of time I can see a faint, fuzzy aura around it. Even more impressive, I can actually make things disappear! I see no reason to invoke magical powers, though. It's simply due to oddities of normal vision we never notice in everyday life.

Sounds like you are just seeing an extension of the object by looking too long,a blurring,which would be understandable by staring intently.

When i first began to see auras,it was not the small grey/blue haze i saw,it was bright red surrounding my hands and feet and shooting out by a foot or more,and other colours in other people extending out or just a patch of colour covering a particular area of their body.

The grey/blue haze i see without much effort on my own body i can actually see through it also,tiny hundreds of lines only a few mm,actually moving out from my body.

We do emit heat and im simply saying not many people have tried to see if they see it too,perhaps they can if they persevere.I think also with perseverance,many could feel their own and others energy too and detect differences.I do know a couple of non-psychics who practiced with me and within the year they was able to detect poorly spots within a body;they wasnt able to know what was up but they could distinctly feel a difference in some areas of the body.Occasionally they saw colour also.

[chillzero]

If you see three people, would each of them have a different aura?

Would their aura stay that way the next time you saw them?

Can you perceive auras if you cannot see the person, e.g. if they are in the next room, or at a corner, or behind a sheet?

[lara123]

Thanks Lara.



Can you tell me what your FIRST psychic experience was and what you thought it was?

The first i dismissed,i saw people in my home,less solid than you and i, for only a few seconds,i didnt hear anything,so i put it down as odd and nothing more.I did not see this as an psychic experience.It was years later that the other experiences began.I had no proof to what that vision was so certainly wasnt going to think anything psychic.Thats why i didnt go into detail earlier!It wasn't enough.I just thought that was strange,full stop.

I dont'work' as a psychic or medium.I did 'professionally' for a wee while.Occasionally i give readings.Whether i will go down that route more,at this point i dont know.I've had the chance to earn a lot of money,i was invited to go into business with someone on those expensive phone lines.Not a chance in hell will i ever charge that sort of money.Whatever some people think of me on here,im not a bad guy.[gal!]

[Janot]

When i first began to see auras,it was not the small grey/blue haze i saw,it was bright red surrounding my hands and feet and shooting out by a foot or more,and other colours in other people extending out or just a patch of colour covering a particular area of their body.

The grey/blue haze i see without much effort on my own body i can actually see through it also,tiny hundreds of lines only a few mm,actually moving out from my body.




I suffer from migraines, and so am quite interested in them generally. The description of these phenomena reminds me strongly of strange optical disturbances associated with, or symptoms of, migraines. These do not have to be in combination with headache, although they often are.

[lara123]

If you see three people, would each of them have a different aura?

Would their aura stay that way the next time you saw them?

Can you perceive auras if you cannot see the person, e.g. if they are in the next room, or at a corner, or behind a sheet?

If i saw three people,they would have a different aura,but i may see same colours on them and may get why theirs is different.[usually]

It may or may not stay the same,it would depend on their mood as well as their health.For instance,if i saw a friend who was happy and well but a few weeks later was stressed,sometimes i see red streaks around people who are stressed and i can often 'feel' their stress.Thats how psychics work--'reading' this energy.Many people can do this now and again,'feel an atmosphere',it is picking up the energy omitted by the person,hence 'reading' this energy.

Sometimes i can perceive auras by not being next to the person,ive been testing this out by reading over the internet to strangers.Results vary,i may just sense they are stressed or get more detail or get nothing.The advantages of being with the person is i can get close and feel their energy and see what i pick up.I've never done this on a professional basis and call it experimental only.Problem is,ive not tested this out a lot at all on strangers that im not next too so im not too sure how well [or not ]i do really.

[lara123]

Lara,

When you say you can see your own energy, I presume you mean in a mirror. Are those mirrors in your own home, or all mirrors, say, in a department store? Also can other people see your energy? Would another person need to have psychic powers to see your energy?

I think you said you can see other people's energy. Are there different "qualities" of energy, or perhaps "intensity" might be a better word? Does the colour you see - blue/grey or any other - make any difference?

No,not in a mirror! I see it on my body,i can always see the blue/grey haze,occasionally colour.I think many,many people could see this energy with perseverance but to see the colour is rarer so that would be a 'psychic' flash.One non-psychic did see my energy once,after weeks of practicing.He went on to see many more.

I can feel different intensities easily on a body,over a poorly spot i feel zinging and normally is much more hot.Ive picked up big differences before on spots that were operated on and spots that the person felt nothing but then an outbreak of something would occur.

The blue/grey haze i see about a cm from my body is there all the time.When i read about auras,psychics talk about several layers to it but i cant see this.I would say i only see this layer and occasionally colours shooting out or just in front of a particular area.

I havent actually seen too many shades of colour,my most common is red,and so far,ive found the people have stress.I have logged a few more colours with people but certainly would need more practice on this.

Aura books give exact meanings to colour and although ive found to be true somewhat i still need more experience,after all i could see a colour that for me has its own meaning.

[lara123]

I suffer from migraines, and so am quite interested in them generally. The description of these phenomena reminds me strongly of strange optical disturbances associated with, or symptoms of, migraines. These do not have to be in combination with headache, although they often are.

I see them anytime i want to,headache free.

I believe we all have healing energy in our hands,dont take my word for it,try it yourself.With practice,i bet you'll feel your own energy too and relieve many minor ailments.Depends if one is willing to try and log results.I havent been to a doctor for years,i self-heal every day.Why not give it a year and see?

have to go now,be on later.

[chillzero]

If i saw three people,they would have a different aura,but i may see same colours on them and may get why theirs is different.[usually]


It may or may not stay the same,it would depend on their mood as well as their health.For instance,if i saw a friend who was happy and well but a few weeks later was stressed,sometimes i see red streaks around people who are stressed and i can often 'feel' their stress.Thats how psychics work--'reading' this energy.Many people can do this now and again,'feel an atmosphere',it is picking up the energy omitted by the person,hence 'reading' this energy.
Well, this sounds to me like somethign that can easily be tested for.

Sometimes i can perceive auras by not being next to the person,ive been testing this out by reading over the internet to strangers.Results vary,i may just sense they are stressed or get more detail or get nothing.The advantages of being with the person is i can get close and feel their energy and see what i pick up.I've never done this on a professional basis and call it experimental only.Problem is,ive not tested this out a lot at all on strangers that im not next too so im not too sure how well [or not ]i do really.


Again - this should be testable, if you were agreeable to helping further research this claimed phenomenon, and giving credibility to you and your peers.





The blue/grey haze i see about a cm from my body is there all the time.When i read about auras,psychics talk about several layers to it but i cant see this.I would say i only see this layer and occasionally colours shooting out or just in front of a particular area.



Can you see your own aura in photographs of yourself?

[John Jackson]

Hi, Lara.

Can you see auras in the dark?

[lara123]

Well, this sounds to me like somethign that can easily be tested for.


Again - this should be testable, if you were agreeable to helping further research this claimed phenomenon, and giving credibility to you and your peers.



Can you see your own aura in photographs of yourself?

well,ive said results vary,im still learning myself with it all and yes i would like to know more about it and practice and test this out better.Ive said i may get nothing,or some things,any idea where i can test this out on then?Know a bunch of people that would be willing participants that wouldnt be mean to me?

No,i cant see it in an photograph.

[lara123]

Hi, Lara.

Can you see auras in the dark?

I can see the blue/haze in dim light but not in the dark.Every single time i have seen colours,it was totally unexpected.

[chillzero]

any idea where i can test this out on then?Know a bunch of people that would be willing participants that wouldnt be mean to me?



I'm sure that wouldn't be too hard to arrange, and in fact, anyone that helped you test this would most likely allow you to select your own group of people to view.

I know that the JREF protocol, which could win you a million dollars if you succeeded, would allow you to select your own group, and they would simply ensure protocols prevented any pre-arranged signals, etc.

And all you have to do to get that far, is test it with another group - like UKSkeptics, perhaps, or gain a media presence.

There is a section here for discussing test protocols, if you'd be up for it.

[lara123]

I'm sure that wouldn't be too hard to arrange, and in fact, anyone that helped you test this would most likely allow you to select your own group of people to view.

I know that the JREF protocol, which could win you a million dollars if you succeeded, would allow you to select your own group, and they would simply ensure protocols prevented any pre-arranged signals, etc.

And all you have to do to get that far, is test it with another group - like UKSkeptics, perhaps, or gain a media presence.

There is a section here for discussing test protocols, if you'd be up for it.

But as far as i understand,sometimes is not good enough is it? I may go through ten people before i get something significant.May or maynot is simply not enough as ive understood it.

Oh-when i first come here,i did offer to test this out,offered for the people to be chosen for me.Will still be on here somewhere.Perhaps what i said was not suitable but i got little feedback.Think the problem was i asked for four days!
Was that so unrealistic then?

[chillzero]

But as far as i understand,sometimes is not good enough is it? I may go through ten people before i get something significant.May or maynot is simply not enough as ive understood it.
You and the testers need to agree a number that will represent success, out of another agreed number of trials. I guess, therefore, it will depend on your definition of 'sometimes'. The requirement is to eliminate the possibility of your doing it by random chance without any special ability.

Oh-when i first come here,i did offer to test this out,offered for the people to be chosen for me.Will still be on here somewhere.Perhaps what i said was not suitable but i got little feedback.Think the problem was i asked for four days!

Was that so unrealistic then?


I have no idea what that is all about. Why not start fresh on a new protocol?

[lara123]

You and the testers need to agree a number that will represent success, out of another agreed number of trials. I guess, therefore, it will depend on your definition of 'sometimes'. The requirement is to eliminate the possibility of your doing it by random chance without any special ability.


I have no idea what that is all about. Why not start fresh on a new protocol?

But i would worry the testers would be mega peeved off with me if i wasted their time.To me, at this point it makes more sense by gathering my own people and knowing nothing about them and getting a further idea myself.I would much prefer the testing by having people to test on rather than internet means.And would sensing a poorly area count if i didnt know exactly what was wrong.What about allowances that i may feel different changes in energy and not know why at all,guess thats why you said it could be discussed and the real point is to eliminate the chance effect.

How about i get 10 people,i'll have people to help me on this,and do my tecnique and we compare.That will help me to consider.Ive done this a few times already and had good results but never took into account what i didnt pick up.Not what i got wrong,because my success rate was high but was i judging it incorrectly for proper testing?

[lara123]

and i give the whole results here and get feedback to see if its worth my while taking it further.I will be absolute honest that will be my promise,stating everything,to the things i didnt get,to the areas i sensed something up but didnt know what it was to anything correct.

Then if the people in the know here,thinks theres something in it,ill go for the testing with you.

[John Jackson]

What sort of tests do you have in mind Lara? How would you be carrying out the tests, and scoring them etc.?

I would be happy to do some testing and spend UKS money on doing so but it would have to be a well-defined test that investigates a clearly stated hypothesis.

I have no doubt that people (including Lara) do perceive auras. But there is more than one explanation for this:
Auras are a form of 'energy' that is emitted from humans (at least in this example) and which is only detectable by those with the psychic ability to do so.
People perceive auras due to some defect in their visual system or cognitive processing (e.g. a form of synaesthesia).i.e. In one instance, auras are an external reality, in the other they are an internal perception.

I would suggest that a suitable test would be a one that aimed to distinguish between these two options.

So, for example, if a psychic claimed that an aura surrounds a person by 6 to 8 inches then they should be able to tell whether a person is standing behind a screen or not as their aura would extend above it.

But we'd need to know exactly what the psychic (or Lara) is actually claiming before such a test could be developed.

[Cuddles]

Every single time i have seen colours,it was totally unexpected.

I see them anytime i want to

???

[lara123]

???

I can always see the smaller blue grey haze one.

[lara123]

What sort of tests do you have in mind Lara? How would you be carrying out the tests, and scoring them etc.?

I would be happy to do some testing and spend UKS money on doing so but it would have to be a well-defined test that investigates a clearly stated hypothesis.

I have no doubt that people (including Lara) do perceive auras. But there is more than one explanation for this:

Auras are a form of 'energy' that is emitted from humans (at least in this example) and which is only detectable by those with the psychic ability to do so.
People perceive auras due to some defect in their visual system or cognitive processing (e.g. a form of synaesthesia).i.e. In one instance, auras are an external reality, in the other they are an internal perception.

I would suggest that a suitable test would be a one that aimed to distinguish between these two options.

So, for example, if a psychic claimed that an aura surrounds a person by 6 to 8 inches then they should be able to tell whether a person is standing behind a screen or not as their aura would extend above it.

But we'd need to know exactly what the psychic (or Lara) is actually claiming before such a test could be developed.

I couldn't be tested in seeing auras.When i see this blue/grey haze around people,it is often only a cm around them,sometimes smaller.Would be far better to test my feeling energy 'abilities'. Where would ukskeptics need the funding for this.I wouldn't want funding in any way.

[John Jackson]

Would be far better to test my feeling energy 'abilities'.

So what are they?

Sorry if you've explained earlier but I haven't read all the threads.

We'd need to know exactly what it is you claim to be able to do.

Where would ukskeptics need the funding for this.


Well we may have to hire somewhere to do testing properly etc.

If costs are incurred in order to do tests then UKS should pay for that.

[lara123]

John,im sincerely not being rude but if you could read all the threads it would help.You will see i talked about testing ten people first and posting here to see if its worth it on the results i get on those ten people.Being skeptics,you could help me out here.If i ever went ahead with further testing i wouldn't take your funds to do it,i couldn't,i see that as my responsibility.

By doing further testing myself and receiving feedback here,it will give me indication if its worth our whiles in doing so.Of course,you wont know if these 10 people i get are real etc and if i state the truth,thats what the testing with you would involve,but i know i will tell the truth to you and i would like your opinions on these results and indeed if it could be testable.If i did even pass tests with you,i wouldn't take the randi test, i couldn't bear the publicity.

So would testing with you come with the condition i test for randi?

[John Jackson]

I don't have the time to read all the threads. :sad:

Lara, you say that you're going to test ten people and post the results but what tests are you planning on doing, how are you going to score them etc.?

Unless tests are properly designed and carried out they're basically meaningless.

As for Randi's challenge, no I wouldn't stipulate that as a condition of a test. I'd be happy to do testing for its own sake.

[lara123]

I don't have the time to read all the threads. :sad:

Lara, you say that you're going to test ten people and post the results but what tests are you planning on doing, how are you going to score them etc.?

Unless tests are properly designed and carried out they're basically meaningless.

As for Randi's challenge, no I wouldn't stipulate that as a condition of a test. I'd be happy to do testing for its own sake.

Ok john.The tests of hovering over their body to see what ailments i pick up or somethings up there.I havent the time today to discuss this further.I dont know how i would score it-thats where i need the help!I could just give the results and you do that to see if its worth continuing testing on this.If you can get the time in the next few days,go back a little bit and read my threads,theres not too much there,catch you soon.

[DrS]

I see them anytime i want to,headache free.



well,ive said results vary ... .Ive said i may get nothingIsn't this contradictory, Lara? If you see them at will, how is it possible that at times you get nothing? I've known people who have suffered from a migraine without knowing it at the time, and who have only inferred it later from other symptoms; as Janot says, it's not always accompanied by head pains. I have also myself known someone who was suffering from pain-free migraine and reported seeing "aura"-like colours just as Janot was discussing.

[lara123]

You are quoting me out of context.I can always see the blue/grey aura but in feeling auras i may get nothing significant.

[lara123]

and sometimes i get clairvoyant information to back up what i sense.This is nothing new what ive said.

[chillzero]

I couldn't be tested in seeing auras.
Odd, since that is the discussion we were having. Why change that now?




I see them anytime i want to,headache free.






If i saw three people,they would have a different aura,but i may see same colours on them and may get why theirs is different.[usually]


It may or may not stay the same,it would depend on their mood as well as their health.For instance,if i saw a friend who was happy and well but a few weeks later was stressed,sometimes i see red streaks around people who are stressed and i can often 'feel' their stress.

<snip>Sometimes i can perceive auras by not being next to the person,ive been testing this out by reading over the internet to strangers.

This was what we were looking at testing, I thought?

Results vary,i may just sense they are stressed or get more detail or get nothing.The advantages of being with the person is i can get close and feel their energy and see what i pick up.I've never done this on a professional basis and call it experimental only.Problem is,ive not tested this out a lot at all on strangers that im not next too so im not too sure how well [or not ]i do really.



I can think of a few reasons why it may be easier to sense a person's stress in person, than remotely. Can you?

[DrS]

You are quoting me out of context.I can always see the blue/grey aura but in feeling auras i may get nothing significant.
I understand what you mean, now: blue-grey auras all the time, with unpredictable and uncontrollable colour flashes (colour = feeling of mood). From your descriptions, I honestly think that you need a medical referral. I think you have vision-affected migraine that results from an existing vision condition. The fact that you see flashes of red when you're faced with someone who is stressed is very telling too. As chillzero says, you will be able to pick signals of stress, as we all can, but such situations could well be triggering migraine in you. I find it does the same to me ... which is why I suggest medical help.

[John Jackson]

Ok john.The tests of hovering over their body to see what ailments i pick up or somethings up there.

So, for example, if there were 20 people, 10 of whom were diabetic, would you be able to tell the difference between the diabetics and non-diabetics reliably?

You see, in order to perform a meaningful test you need to make a precise claim. We'd need to know:

Exactly what it is you claim you can do;
To what level of accuracy you can do it;
Under which conditions you can do it.So if you claim that you can tell whether a person has an illness or not with 80% accuracy under blinded conditions then we can devise a test.

OTOH, if you just say that you see auras and sometimes you can tell whether someone has an illness or not then that is not a precise claim and no test could be designed that is meaningful.

If someone has a true ability then it should be measurable and it should work reliably at more than chance levels.

[Nasib]

I understand what you mean, now: blue-grey auras all the time, with unpredictable and uncontrollable colour flashes (colour = feeling of mood). From your descriptions, I honestly think that you need a medical referral. I think you have vision-affected migraine that results from an existing vision condition. The fact that you see flashes of red when you're faced with someone who is stressed is very telling too. As chillzero says, you will be able to pick signals of stress, as we all can, but such situations could well be triggering migraine in you. I find it does the same to me ... which is why I suggest medical help.

The blue-grey aura that Lara has referred to is the Etheric Body, the aura's first layer. The densest part, the easiest layer to see, blue-grey in colour, it extends about two inches out from the physical body. This auric layer acts as a bridge between our physical and subtle bodies. It contains structures which allow us to absorb ki from the surrounding environment and to process it before it becomes part of the physical body. It also acts as a kind of mould or template for the form which our physical body actually takes, and as such retains its structure after the physical body has 'died'.

The colour red seen in the aura depending on the density or shade, can indeed denote anger, stress, determination, but can also be a form of heat detection pinpointing an area of the physical body where there may be pain caused by inflammation, swelling of the joints or such other blockages in the overall flow of the body's energy.

[John Jackson]

The blue-grey aura that Lara has referred to is the Etheric Body, the aura's first layer. The densest part, the easiest layer to see, blue-grey in colour, it extends about two inches out from the physical body. This auric layer acts as a bridge between our physical and subtle bodies. It contains structures which allow us to absorb ki from the surrounding environment and to process it before it becomes part of the physical body. It also acts as a kind of mould or template for the form which our physical body actually takes, and as such retains its structure after the physical body has 'died'.

The colour red seen in the aura depending on the density or shade, can indeed denote anger, stress, determination, but can also be a form of heat detection pinpointing an area of the physical body where there may be pain caused by inflammation, swelling of the joints or such other blockages in the overall flow of the body's energy.

How do you know that?

Can you cite the research?

[lara123]

So, for example, if there were 20 people, 10 of whom were diabetic, would you be able to tell the difference between the diabetics and non-diabetics reliably?

You see, in order to perform a meaningful test you need to make a precise claim. We'd need to know:

Exactly what it is you claim you can do;
To what level of accuracy you can do it;
Under which conditions you can do it.So if you claim that you can tell whether a person has an illness or not with 80% accuracy under blinded conditions then we can devise a test.

OTOH, if you just say that you see auras and sometimes you can tell whether someone has an illness or not then that is not a precise claim and no test could be designed that is meaningful.

If someone has a true ability then it should be measurable and it should work reliably at more than chance levels.

Ive never had 20 people to try on-10 which were diabetic so i don't know.

I will do my homework over the coming months and come back to you on this.Thankyou for your time and responses.

I appreciate a high accuracy rate and consistancy is needed to be tested.Whatever happens with my results i shall let you know either way.

[lara123]

I understand what you mean, now: blue-grey auras all the time, with unpredictable and uncontrollable colour flashes (colour = feeling of mood). From your descriptions, I honestly think that you need a medical referral. I think you have vision-affected migraine that results from an existing vision condition. The fact that you see flashes of red when you're faced with someone who is stressed is very telling too. As chillzero says, you will be able to pick signals of stress, as we all can, but such situations could well be triggering migraine in you. I find it does the same to me ... which is why I suggest medical help.

I can also pick up the signals of stress by being blindfolded and feeling their energy so your theory does not fit.I have a full 100% health record,rarely get migraines.I have also seen chakras on people and interpreted their health from them alone.As well as giving many detailed accurate readings,seeing spirit people,i know i have psychic abilities.

Maybe they are not consistant enough to be tested,but in the following months i shall know that.If someone was able to study me over a year i have no doubt i could prove it.Maybe i couldn't prove it under controlled conditions in an hour or two,that does not mean it doesn't exist.But i am taking this further to examine my abilities and i thank ukskeptics for that.I will also be logging again all readings i do,with a new viewpoint of approaching people and telling them this is for study purposes and to carefully look at every word i say.Every reading i give will be free,and give me an accurate picture of my abilities better.

I will always maintain i am psychic..but i must know exactly to which degree now and whether it is of the highest consistant quality if i am to take this on a professional level.

And if it is not,i shall not do it.

I stayed here to learn something and i have.We have had a few spates and i hope some of you are kinder to the new 'psychics' who follow.Some of you have been very helpful and thankyou for that.

I will not be returning now for a few months.I hope i receive a little credit for studying my abilities better and stating i wont take it up if its not consistantly accurate.I give you credit for helping with this decision.You have made me think twice.Thankyou.

Happy christmas to all of you.

Final word to farside..hey,your'e not so bad after all!:smiley:

[Nasib]

How do you know that?

Can you cite the research?

Part of my mediumship development involves experimenting with the aura. I have taken part in exercises ("tests" if you like) to experience how some can see/feel another's energy/aura, the colours, the sensations, their meanings and applications.

An example of a "blind" test being to stand facing a wall where someone would approach slowly from behind (in a room where all will have beforehand tuned in and expanded their energies out into the room). When I felt the sensation of that person's energy coming into my energy field, I put my hand up for them to stop where they are - then I would relay what I can pick up surrounding that person - colours, visualisations, whatever. You then have to give your interpretation of the colours, images and sensations - the meaning of the colours e.g. may differ from one person to another. On my first attempt I saw a pink hazy cloud on a sort of "screen" in front of me and then various images which I relayed to the person. I then experienced being suddenly hit by a strong sensation of tightening round my whole body. All of a sudden I couldn't bend my fingers, my hands just seemed to seize up, the weirdest physical sensation. I suggested that perhaps the person suffered from arthritis. This turned out to be just so - arthritis in the hands.
I had felt at the time I would never be able to move my fingers again, but after a short time the sensation was gone and everything back to "normal".

[LeQue]

Maybe i couldn't prove it under controlled conditions in an hour or two,that does not mean it doesn't exist.

There are no excuses for not being able to prove claims. An hour, a day, a week... If not, it means people should steer clear of your fraudulent practices.


But i am taking this further to examine my abilities and i thank ukskeptics for that.I will also be logging again all readings i do,with a new viewpoint of approaching people and telling them this is for study purposes and to carefully look at every word i say.

Why not take it further here, with John's help? Your "logs" and such wont hold any scientific value.


I will not be returning now for a few months.I hope i receive a little credit for studying my abilities better and stating i wont take it up if its not consistantly accurate.


You seem to be withdrawing from the discussion along with John's offer for testing, which is the only type of valid "study" I can see for this. People here have tried to accommodate you to prove yourself, and now you post a goodbye.

You have already "taken up" this practice and have made money doing it. But you might have meant you wont take a test that you will not pass?

I do hope to see you back though. For some testing :smiley:

[chillzero]

I can also pick up the signals of stress by being blindfolded and feeling their energy so your theory does not fit.

You need to do some more reading (of books). Visual clues are not the only way we pick these things up from each other. Are you telling me that you have actually tried this blindfolded? Can you give us a run-down of the entire experiment?

I have a full 100% health record,rarely get migraines.

So, not 100% then - bolding mine.

I have also seen chakras on people and interpreted their health from them alone.

How do you determine the accuracy? Do you check your 'findings' with a medical expert who has also examined the person?



I will always maintain i am psychic.

What if you cannot verify this belief through testing? What will it take to convince you otherwise? I ask, because that is an important thing to determine. You need to determine what results will convince you of both proof of, and evidence against, your abilities.

but i must know exactly to which degree now and whether it is of the highest consistant quality if i am to take this on a professional level.

And if it is not,i shall not do it.
I admire that you state this. It brings me back to my previous question. What will convince you not to practice?


I will not be returning now for a few months.

No testing after all?

I hope i receive a little credit for studying my abilities better and stating i wont take it up if its not consistantly accurate.I give you credit for helping with this decision.You have made me think twice.Thankyou.

Please keep accurate notes of what you do and how you draw your conclusions. We will be delighted to help you analyse them when you return. Thank you for being open to testing your ability.

[John Jackson]

Part of my mediumship development involves experimenting with the aura. I have taken part in exercises ("tests" if you like) to experience how some can see/feel another's energy/aura, the colours, the sensations, their meanings and applications.

Uncontrolled 'exercises' are not tests.

An example of a "blind" test being to stand facing a wall where someone would approach slowly from behind (in a room where all will have beforehand tuned in and expanded their energies out into the room). When I felt the sensation of that person's energy coming into my energy field, I put my hand up for them to stop where they are - then I would relay what I can pick up surrounding that person - colours, visualisations, whatever. You then have to give your interpretation of the colours, images and sensations - the meaning of the colours e.g. may differ from one person to another. On my first attempt I saw a pink hazy cloud on a sort of "screen" in front of me and then various images which I relayed to the person. I then experienced being suddenly hit by a strong sensation of tightening round my whole body. All of a sudden I couldn't bend my fingers, my hands just seemed to seize up, the weirdest physical sensation. I suggested that perhaps the person suffered from arthritis. This turned out to be just so - arthritis in the hands.
I had felt at the time I would never be able to move my fingers again, but after a short time the sensation was gone and everything back to "normal".

So basically it's whatever you subjectively feel and what you say is validated by the people running the 'tests'.

I remember a 'developing medium' saying how she'd given a reading for her tutor at one of her classes. She was very pleased as she'd tuned into the tutor's dead aunty and given a particularly accurate reading.

I asked her how she knew that the reading was so incredibly accurate. The tutor told her so!

I asked whether she thought the tutor may have had any non-psychic motivation for validating this reading. I got no answer.

Nasib, if you can do this as you've explained I'd be just as happy to test you properly too. That is with people whose medical conditions are noted, proven and logged before the test; and the test will be ran by an invigilator who doesn't know what the participants' conditions are either. i.e. double blind.

If your ability is genuine then you should score just as highly in proper testing as you do in your development classes. If you can't, then there's clearly something going on at your development classes that doesn't involve psychic ability.

[DrS]

rarely get migraines
So, not 100% then - bolding mine.
This is my point, Lara. Now that you've even acknowledged that you do in fact get migraines, I would ask how you know. Do you get head pains? If so, why can't you acknowledge that you might get pain-free migraines too and that this is what is responsible for what you are seeing?
The blue-grey aura that Lara has referred to is the Etheric Body, the aura's first layer. The densest part, the easiest layer to see, blue-grey in colour, it extends about two inches out from the physical body. This auric layer acts as a bridge between our physical and subtle bodies. It contains structures which allow us to absorb ki from the surrounding environment and to process it before it becomes part of the physical body. It also acts as a kind of mould or template for the form which our physical body actually takes, and as such retains its structure after the physical body has 'died'.

The colour red seen in the aura depending on the density or shade, can indeed denote anger, stress, determination, but can also be a form of heat detection pinpointing an area of the physical body where there may be pain caused by inflammation, swelling of the joints or such other blockages in the overall flow of the body's energy.You'll forgive me for saying this, I hope, but I consider this codswallop. I'm fairly well educated, I'd say, and I've never found anything that could support this in nigh on 50 years. I've no idea what you mean by "ki", nor why you should think our physical form "retains its structure after the physical body has 'died'".

[Janot]

The blue-grey aura that Lara has referred to is the Etheric Body, the aura's first layer. ..... It contains structures which allow us to absorb ki from the surrounding environment and to process it before it becomes part of the physical body. Can you please tell me what the aura is composed of, in terms of physics? If you claim it exists, then you must be able to state what it is composed of. Does it obey the laws of thermodynamics?

[Nasib]

You'll forgive me for saying this, I hope, but I consider this codswallop. I'm fairly well educated, I'd say, and I've never found anything that could support this in nigh on 50 years. I've no idea what you mean by "ki", nor why you should think our physical form "retains its structure after the physical body has 'died'".

I forgive you, DrS! :smiley: Although I just happen to believe in what you consider as codswallop.

"Ki", loosely translated, means life force / energy / spirit or breath.
All the martial arts are based on Ki (or Chi) - as in Tai Chi, which is based on the assumption that the mind leads the body, an "assumption" that's been with me for as far back as I can remember.

[Nasib]

Can you please tell me what the aura is composed of, in terms of physics? If you claim it exists, then you must be able to state what it is composed of. Does it obey the laws of thermodynamics?

Janot, as you've probably gathered, I'm not "scientifically minded". The laws of thermodynamics? Something to do with heat .... but I don't know what those "laws" would consist of.
Do we know what a rainbow is "composed of"? Perhaps the scientifically minded do, but it would be way beyond me to try and give a scientific explanation.

[bobdezon]

Ki, imaginary form of energy that gets people seriously hurt if they believe in it, especially martial arts. Its martial arts woo.

You should watch Ki in action ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

[Nasib]

Uncontrolled 'exercises' are not tests.



So basically it's whatever you subjectively feel and what you say is validated by the people running the 'tests'.

I remember a 'developing medium' saying how she'd given a reading for her tutor at one of her classes. She was very pleased as she'd tuned into the tutor's dead aunty and given a particularly accurate reading.

I asked her how she knew that the reading was so incredibly accurate. The tutor told her so!

I asked whether she thought the tutor may have had any non-psychic motivation for validating this reading. I got no answer.

Nasib, if you can do this as you've explained I'd be just as happy to test you properly too. That is with people whose medical conditions are noted, proven and logged before the test; and the test will be ran by an invigilator who doesn't know what the participants' conditions are either. i.e. double blind.

If your ability is genuine then you should score just as highly in proper testing as you do in your development classes. If you can't, then there's clearly something going on at your development classes that doesn't involve psychic ability.

John, I haven't ignored your post - just LOST on submission a detailed reply to you ... rrrrrrrr... frustration.. had to re-start my computer, and no time now. Will have to do it again ... will be tomorrow.

[darktil]

The truth is that the truth varies with each individual.

Sceptics see a sceptic world, the rest of us see blue grass, pink skies and fish that fly.

Vivla difference!!!

[Janot]

Do we know what a rainbow is "composed of"? Perhaps the scientifically minded do, but it would be way beyond me to try and give a scientific explanation.Yes, we do know what a rainbow consists of. I do.

OK then, if you can't give the explanation, can you give me a link or reference to somebody who can?

[bindeweede]

The truth is that the truth varies with each individual.

Sceptics see a sceptic world, the rest of us see blue grass, pink skies and fish that fly.

Vivla difference!!!

So truth is relative? Some readers here have been on this journey before.

[Lord Muck oGentry]

The truth* is that the truth varies with each individual.

*Is that so?

:smiley:

[Julia]

'The truth' is that certain people live in a fantasy world, have no real interest in how the real world works and think a change of name will conceal their identity. ::)

[Fiona]

*senses she is missing something*

[darktil]

There is no point in commenting here honestly because it would be deleted like many of my posts have been deleted in the past. You are like a pack of hounds waiting to pounce on anyone who disagrees with you and your small view of this world.

Adieu. Je vous quitterai avec vos illusions - quels que soit vous devez vous dire de vous recevoir tout autre jour. Vous ne vous le rendez pas même compte mais votre monde est si petit. Au revoir.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

There speaks someone who doesn't really want to understand reality.

[Janot]

Adieu. Je vous quitterai avec vos illusions - .... Au revoir.
I think someone needs medical treatment here. Have a nice life in fairyland.

[Fiona]

There is no point in commenting here honestly because it would be deleted like many of my posts have been deleted in the past. You are like a pack of hounds waiting to pounce on anyone who disagrees with you and your small view of this world.

Adieu. Je vous quitterai avec vos illusions - quels que soit vous devez vous dire de vous recevoir tout autre jour. Vous ne vous le rendez pas même compte mais votre monde est si petit. Au revoir.

I am confused. You have just arrived. How can many of your posts have been deleted? Are you someone else pretending to be new? Why would you do that?

[Lord Muck oGentry]

Bonjour, Mme Sartre! Est-ce que nous pouvons jouer avec Jean-Paul?

[Nasib]

Adieu. Je vous quitterai avec vos illusions - quels que soit vous devez vous dire de vous recevoir tout autre jour. Vous ne vous le rendez pas même compte mais votre monde est si petit. Au revoir.


There speaks someone who doesn't really want to understand reality.


Mais, chacun a son gout, n'est-ce pas?

[John Jackson]

There is no point in commenting here honestly because it would be deleted like many of my posts have been deleted in the past. You are like a pack of hounds waiting to pounce on anyone who disagrees with you and your small view of this world.

Hi Zaira. ;)

Stupid as most of them were, your posts were never deleted. Just because you have a twisted view of reality that doesn't fit in here, that's no excuse to resort to lying.

[Nasib]

Uncontrolled 'exercises' are not tests.

OK, perhaps "experiments" would be a more appropriate word.


So basically it's whatever you subjectively feel and what you say is validated by the people running the 'tests'.
No. Validated by the those partaking in the experiments and, more importantly, one's own personal validation.

For a period of about 6 months or so before the visit of my dead mother, amongst other weird happenings I was experiencing many occurrences where I was seeing colours surrounding people, passers-by in the street, co-workers, etc. I would see patches of blue or green in varying shades in different parts of their bodies. Didn't know what it was. At the same time all sorts of sudden, short-lived "symptoms" of various physical ailments, and in that period was in and out of hospitals undergoing every type of medical test there is (as told on another thread here). It was my mother's visit that directed me into development, and from there I am now able to put some sort of clarification into the meaning of some of these happenings, and now learning how to harness and channel this phenomena & apply in positive directions. Also during that period electrical equipment was going haywire around me, lightbulbs, tv's, computers - I was a liability at work, a joke at the houses of friends/relatives.


I remember a 'developing medium' saying how she'd given a reading for her tutor at one of her classes. She was very pleased as she'd tuned into the tutor's dead aunty and given a particularly accurate reading.

I asked her how she knew that the reading was so incredibly accurate. The tutor told her so!

I asked whether she thought the tutor may have had any non-psychic motivation for validating this reading. I got no answer.
The same could be said for this situation: If I were in that group and a student were to give me a reading which was accurate for me (which has happened) I would tell them so. If no meaning taken by me I would similarly tell them so.



Nasib, if you can do this as you've explained I'd be just as happy to test you properly too. That is with people whose medical conditions are noted, proven and logged before the test; and the test will be ran by an invigilator who doesn't know what the participants' conditions are either. i.e. double blind.
Much as I would love to partake in such an experiment (not to prove anything to anyone else, but for my own personal validation), as it is I'm not permitted enough time to put towards my own experiments and development.


If your ability is genuine then you should score just as highly in proper testing as you do in your development classes. If you can't, then there's clearly something going on at your development classes that doesn't involve psychic ability.

If you're inferring some form of trickery or brainwashing there, whilst I accept that some sources of a dubious nature are to be found in this field in the teaching, publicising and practice areas, I have no qualms in stating that the long-established organisation where I am in development carries an impeccable reputation and those involved in it are all experienced, qualified and accredited mediums serving solely to lend their own individual experiences to assist in the development of others. No monetary gains are involved and initial acceptance entails a rigorous "interview" procedure ascertaining whether or not the applicant possesses any form of "ability", i.e. that they're not applying out of curiosity or seeking a pastime to fill their days.
My ability IS genuine.

[Julia]

Zaira, it pays to look here before assuming that your posts have been deleted.

Junk, Spam, Trolling, Abuse, etc. (http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=47)
This forum is a dumping ground for general twaddle.

:cheesy:

[John Jackson]

My ability IS genuine.

End of. ;)

I suspect that you experience some unusual things and the psychic interpretation is what gives you the most personal meaning for them. So I can understand you wanting to stick with that and avoid it being tested in any way.

If you're only looking to confirm what you want to believe then you're going the right way about it. That doesn't mean that your ability is genuine however.

Psychic ability is a belief system not a reality and I'm sure that psychic claimants actually know this - hence the refusal to ever be tested properly.

[Nasib]

Hi all. For those lucky enough to have had a break over last few days I hope it was an enjoyable one.
_____________________

John - If, by this


End of. ;)

you are implying Q.E.D.(?) - I beg to differ, as follows:
That sentence was referring to your "If your ability is genuine ..."
.... then you should score just as highly in proper testing as you do in your development classes. It IS genuine - and I should, and there is every possibility that I would (although we should ascertain that "proper" testing is not defined solely by the means laid out by you above, that is but one form of 'proper' testing).

I suspect that you experience some unusual things and the psychic interpretation is what gives you the most personal meaning for them. So I can understand you wanting to stick with that and avoid it being tested in any way.
???
Surely simple common sense would suggest to anyone of a skeptical mind that the first and foremost form of 'proper' testing would be that of elimination, checking first for any physical/medical/(recognisably)logical explanations - which WAS my first course of action :
For a period of about 6 months or so before the visit of my dead mother, amongst other weird happenings I was experiencing many occurrences where I was seeing colours surrounding people, passers-by in the street, co-workers, etc. I would see patches of blue or green in varying shades in different parts of their bodies. Didn't know what it was. At the same time all sorts of sudden, short-lived "symptoms" of various physical ailments, and in that period was in and out of hospitals undergoing every type of medical test there is (all 'proper' tests - including neurological tests, brain scan ....) All proved 'normal' - thus eliminating any possible causes there.
It was my mother's visit that directed me into development, and from there I am now able to put some sort of clarification into the meaning of some of these happenings. ~ If I had a persistent toothache (after first 'testing' with pain killers anticipating 'elimination')I'd naturally go to a dentist.
After a visit from my dead mother I go to a medium (expecting 'elimination' but receiving confirmation - of the visit AND of the various strange happenings AND much more ...) Don't you think I haven't continued testing/being tested and eliminating ever since - and still am, and ALWAYS will.
If you're only looking to confirm what you want to believe then you're going the right way about it.
So no, that is not what I'm doing ...

That doesn't mean that your ability is genuine however.
Psychic ability is a belief system not a reality
- That is YOUR belief John! And your belief because it's not been proven to be a reality to you, therefore you cannot PROVE that it's merely a belief system.


..

[seren]

I hope you had a good time too Nasib. O0

- That is YOUR belief John! And your belief because it's not been proven to be a reality to you, therefore you cannot PROVE that it's merely a belief system.

No no no no no!
I'm sure we've been through this before. Let's do it again.





opinion

• noun 1 a view or judgement not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. 2 the beliefs or views of people in general: public opinion.



fact

• noun 1 a thing that is indisputably the case. 2 (facts) information used as evidence or as part of a report.




belief

• noun 1 a feeling that something exists or is true, especially one without proof. 2 a firmly held opinion.




proof

• noun 1 evidence establishing a fact or the truth of a statement. 2 the proving of the truth of a statement.

<snip>

claim

• verb 1 state as being the case, without being able to give proof.


Skeptics don't have "opinions" or "beliefs" about mediumship [or psychic powers]. They assess "claims" and seek "proof" to establish "facts". We don't read what matches our "opinion", we look at what establishes the "facts". There is a crucial, crucial difference which I hope these definitions help to explain.

If it can be proven to you, but not to me or John, it isn't a fact. Facts are objectively true. They are true for everyone. E.g there either isn't a spirit world, or there is. There isn't a spirit world for you but not me. If it were true, then it would be provable to everyone. Because it would be there in a measurable, noticeable, tangible form. If it isn't measurable, noticeable or tangible, it basically doesn't exist outside of your own mind.
Like a dream. It may seem real at the time, but it isn't. The events of your dreams have no objective truth, you don't act like what happened to you in your dreams really happened. Your "experience" in your dreams was wrong. Your neighbour didn't call you a sideboard and run over your feather boa with a Mustang, and you don't behave as if they did because even though you experienced all those things, you understand that it wasn't real.

The problem with discussing this Nasib is that to get where we're coming from you have to kind of let it go for a bit. You have to drop the assumption that it's true and come from the position that it might not be. Question everything. And by question I don't mean go "Hmmmm" :ponder: "I can't explain that, I must be psychic!", I mean research it, read about it, find alternative explanations. Medical tests don't teach you how the brain works (may I suggest the book I just got for Christmas, "Phantoms in the Brain" by Dr VS Ramachandran?). There's probably nothing medically wrong with you at all, it's just the brain being its wonderful complex self.

But dismantling everything you believe in is hard to do, and you've no real need to do it. You're happy with the explanation you have. We're not going to convince you and you're not going to convince us. Since you're not keen on getting your abilities tested I don't think there's much more to say on this topic. Your contributions on other topics have been interesting and my humble suggestion (which you can of course ignore) would be to grace us with your very welcome presence on other threads unrelated to this. Just my two penn'th. :smiley:

[Nasib]

Seren,
Thanks for the book recommendation. I am familiar with the works of Ramachandran, and the subject matter is in no way a novel concept to me as this has been my reading material and interest for over 40 years.


The problem with discussing this Nasib is that to get where we're coming from you have to kind of let it go for a bit. You have to drop the assumption that it's true and come from the position that it might not be. Question everything. And by question I don't mean go "Hmmmm" :ponder: "I can't explain that, I must be psychic!",

It's a complete misconception to assume that I fall into this category.

We're not going to convince you and you're not going to convince us. Since you're not keen on getting your abilities tested I don't think there's much more to say on this topic.

AMEN :'(

[lara123]

nasib...just wondering if you fancy coming to my new years eve party..just you and me and our invisible guests..;D

[bindeweede]

I will not be returning now for a few months.I hope i receive a little credit for studying my abilities better and stating i wont take it up if its not consistantly accurate.I give you credit for helping with this decision.You have made me think twice.Thankyou.


Happy christmas to all of you.
Final word to farside..hey,your'e not so bad after all!:smiley:



Happy New year to you, too.