Sue Fraser - intuition or scam?

[dizzyblonde]

Came across this site - what a scam. This woman claims to have reinvented (by channelling) Alice Bailey's 'Rays of emergence' and is promoting her woo by using the dalai lama too!

http://www.intuitionandrays.co.uk/index.html

Enjoy!

[bobdezon]

Pure lunacy throughout the entire site. Aliens were simply too much for me.

[Mulder]

Why is that these websites always contain smiling faces, friendly colours, soothing messages and yet they still feel creepy? Or is that just me? :smiley:

[vbloke]

I like her "spirit guide" from the Pleiades.
I wonder, however, how he comes from there, as the stars are far too young to have spawned planets yet and they're too gravitationally turbulent for planets to last long in their vicinity anyway.

[Julia]

I suppose a spirit guide, being unemcumbered by a material body, can live just about anywhere. And the Pleides sounds so much more interesting than Wolverhampton or other drearily mundane places. :smiley:

[bobdezon]

I would be far more impressed if her guide came from wolverhampton to be honest. I mean who would willingly admit they were from there? It adds a lot more creedence to the claim. ;D

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

She's special in her own way.

[dizzyblonde]

psychotic rather than psychic, methinks. :cheesy:

[dizzyblonde]

Sue Fraser has teamed up with the Sirus Temple of Ascension and will be appearing at the Starseed Workshop in London on 12th Jan 2008.
http://www.siriusascension.com/london.htm

What is a starseed one asks?

Here y'go.....

'What are Starseeds?

My definition is as follows. Starseeds are beings that have experienced life elsewhere in the Universe on other planets and in non-physical dimensions. They have come to earth to help and serve others as well as the planet herself. They very often have gifts to share with others with healing, channeling and spiritual education. In addition they tend to have the following characteristics:
A deep interest in spirituality
The ability to rapidly spiritually grow when needed as if they have done this before
Feel as if earth is not their true home
Feel drawn to space, the stars and science fiction
Tend to be artistic, sensitive and have an expanded consciousness
Can have a difficult and challenging life
I believe that many people are starseeds. However I know that many of these do not need to remember their star origins in order to accomplish their life missions. For these people their focus is needed on everyday “earthly” matters and this is why they are not drawn to this subject. They need to learn how to master those things the earth plane has to offer and this consumes their time and energy. This could be mastering the physical body, their emotions / thoughts or their ability to manifest.
For some starseeds it is important for them to reconnect and remember their star heritage. Here there is a strong motivation to find out who they are and why they are here. Their missions often involve using their unique skills. They are supported by their extraterrestrial guides in opening up to this.
In addition the term “seed” implies that the starseeds are contributing something that will grow and assist others. Indeed many starseeds carry high spiritual energies and consciousness which are contributing to the ascension of consciousness in individuals and in the collective.
There is a lot of new information and help with understanding starseed identity included in my Starseed Home study Course which is offered through the Inter Planetary Starseed School click here (http://www.siriusascension.com/school.htm)
Who are the Extraterrestrial Masters?
The Extraterrestrial Masters of the light act in very much the same as the Ascended Masters. They act as guides and helpers to us individually as well as to the planet as a whole. The main difference is that they may not have incarnated on earth and will be linked to another planet or star. In addition they may have physical form. They are increasingly offering support and help to us. The main categories that are know to us are the Arcturians, the Sirians, the Pleiadians and the Ashtar Command. They are very evolved beings and bring much love and enlightenment to us in our interactions with them.
How do they help us?
The Extraterrestrial Masters can work with us individually if we ask for this. They mainly work in energetic ways that assist us with healing, purification and rapid spiritual growth. Starseeds have Extraterrestrial Masters who act as guides along side the other categories of guides. They can provide information on our life missions, gifts and origins in the universe. In addition they seek to help mankind as a whole by bringing through information and guidance on general spiritual matters as well as practical information regarding science, the environment and social matters.
How do I work with them?
I am a channel and so most of my work involves channeling information and guidance from the Extraterrestrial Masters as well as giving personal starseed readings. I facilitate Sirian Attunements / Activations with the help of the Sirian Masters. These activate higher potentials in starseeds by working on individuals on all levels of their being. These energetic activations initiate rapid spiritual growth, the awareness and movement towards higher consciousness as well as to further activate individual’s gifts, growth patterns and life missions. In addition I give presentations about the whole Starseed subject and I enjoy taking questions.
Why now?
Many individual starseeds and lightworkers are ready to express and manifest their life missions in the deepest ways. Here the Extraterrestrial Masters can assist with this process and so are making themselves more available for help then ever before. In addition it is their role to assist with the Earth Ascension which is taking place now. The general level of awareness and acceptance of the Extraterrestrial Masters has risen so that many more people can relate to them as guides along side traditional guides, angels and the ascended masters.
Paul McCarthy'

[dizzyblonde]

Test yourselves - you could be Starseeds!

http://home.earthlink.net/~pleiadesx/starquiz.htm

[Fiona]

I am not :'(

[Janot]

'What are Starseeds?
The ability to rapidly spiritually grow when needed as if they have done this before
And the ability to rapidly spiritually split your infinitve.

[DrS]

I am not either ..... I scored 41 and the minimum score was 40. :'(

[bindeweede]

What the Chuffin Norah has tapioca got to do wi owt?

What a load of sillybilly stuff.

[Julia]

Ah, tapioca! I haven't eaten any of that since I left boarding school, where tapioca pudding with one lonely prune floating in it ('turds in frogspawn') turned up as dessert at least once a week. :eek3:

[seren]

Do you have higher/lower than average body temperature?

Eh? I don't know, I've never asked myself.


Do you believe in the natural superiority of women?

So female chauvinism is a feature? How lovely.


Does the word Atlantis ring some sort of bell in your memory?

Umm...catchy song by Donovan with a ridiculous intro?


Do you like to test ideas & concepts?

Did anybody here answer "no"?

I uh, I got 26. I think that makes me very firmly an earth seed. Ho hum.

[dizzyblonde2]

Well, after watching Sue's website grow change day by day as she invented - sorry, 'was given' more new workshops, more devas, angels, dragons and numerological mumbo jumbo, I finally flipped when I saw a that she had taken an 'apprentice'.

I have been in touch with the benefit fraud line and within a few days, Sue's websites suddenly went off line and an email enquiry brings the response that 'I am poorly with fibromyalgia and sinus and being guided to take some time out to recover'.

Sorry, but shouldn't that read, "I am being investigated by the benefit fraud team and will be offline until I reinvent myself?"

For those that wonder if these people pay taxes or declare their earnings, there is a handy online reporting system (anonymous too) at the dwp.gov.uk web site

>:D

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

some ruins still to be found here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070830072013/http://www.intuitionandrays.co.uk/index.html

[dizzyblonde2]

Whats this web archive thingy then? The pages of 'intuitionand rays' held there are very old. How to get them taken down?

[Matt]

Whats this web archive thingy then? The pages of 'intuitionand rays' held there are very old. How to get them taken down?

Why would you want to? The copyright owner can have them removed from the archive.

[Sue Fraser]

Hi everyone!
I hope you don't mind me joining in on this thread? I thought you might have some questions which I may personally be able to answer?
Thank you dizzyblonde for reporting me to the fraud people. Not that I really need to justify myself, but I am wondering why you have this personal vendetta going on against me?
I am not working illegally. I do have fibromyalgia and I am disabled. I also have a sinus problem, which was recently cured with homeopathy, I might add.
I am currently on sickness benefits but I do what is called 'permitted work'. I have been on a program to get back into the workplace with the jobcentre, at my instigation, as I am now recovering very well from a really difficult bout of the giardia parasite whilst visiting India in October 2007 to take some funds I had raised for children attending a school run by a friend of mine. This brought on a really bad case of fibromyalgia due to the lowering of my immune system. I could verify this by giving you the number of my GP but I don't think that's appropriate.
I begin work again on the 1st October when my website will be back up and running. I wasn't aware that I shouldn't have a website whilst on sick and the job centre did contact me to inform me of this. So thank you again dizzyblonde for bringing that to my awareness.
Can I just ask 'what do you gain by slagging people off on here?' It is beyond me why people would genuinely wish harm to others who they know nothing about.
I agree that my work may sound quite extreme to some but I have helped many over the years to become well and balanced. I work in many ways, the intuition part of my work is only a small part of it. I just wonder why doing something that helps others would cause the people on this particular thread so much satisfaction to slag off?
Please feel free to ask me questions now that I am here. I am not using a name to cover my identity. I have nothing to hide.
Sue Fraser

[chillzero]

I agree that my work may sound quite extreme to some but I have helped many over the years to become well and balanced. I work in many ways, the intuition part of my work is only a small part of it. I just wonder why doing something that helps others would cause the people on this particular thread so much satisfaction to slag off?
Please feel free to ask me questions now that I am here. I am not using a name to cover my identity. I have nothing to hide.
Sue Fraser

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
I have no intention of 'slagging you off' so I hope you won't mind discussing some things.

My concern is that you list a lot of health problems you struggle with. Having struggled with several health issues myself I can sympathise.

How does that impact your ability to 'teach' other people how to "Heal themselves with Rays" ? What have you achieved in healing yourself in this manner, that you use as evidence to your pupils?

You sell Healing Spray number 2: "A lovely healing spray, brings flow into blockages. Use to attract support. Use when healing any ‘heart’ issues, to open up to give and receive love. Also spray to connect with Kuthumi and Archangels Jophiel and Constance."
Did you try this as a remedy for your ailments? What were the results?
I assume you will also utilise Ray Spray 20 to assist you in getting back on your feet and back to work?

You say that you cured a sinus problem with homeopathy - would you mind letting us know what kind of sinus problem, and what remedies cured it for you?

Regards,
chillzero

[chillzero]

Your site also stated:
"The saying goes ' we teach what we most need to learn...'"
Would you mind explaining what is meant by that?

I'd also like to discuss reiki with you further, if that's ok?

[Admin]

Sue also seems to have a blog here: http://sue.intuitionandrays.co.uk/

[chillzero]

Thanks John.

Sue - what's your take on evolution?

[Pebble]

Hi everyone!
Can I just ask 'what do you gain by slagging people off on here?' It is beyond me why people would genuinely wish harm to others who they know nothing about.

Sue Fraser

From you own blog Sue:


Meditation on the Sacred Heart Centre
by Sue Fraser on Thu 17 May 2007 08:34 AM BST | Permanent Link | Cosmos
I suggest that you read this meditation onto a tape recorder and play it back, or get someone else to read it to you.

Breathe, gently and calmly.

Focus on your physical heart, feel it beating within you. Picture the blood being pumped around your body - what a magical instrument your heart is.

Imagine that inside your heart there is a room. It can be as small or as large as you want it to be.

This room is your sacred heart centre. Take a moment to orientate yourself and feel the energy here. This is your true heart energy. What does it feel like? Breathe this beautiful expansive energy, knowing that this is yours, unique to you.

From this place connect to the heart of Mother Earth. Bring this connection back into your sacred heart centre.

Allow this energy to merge with your own. The two become as one. Feel the difference from your own energy.

You are now secure and grounded.

Now make a connection to the heart of God/ Source/ All That Is (however you feel comfortable naming Source).

Bring this connection back into your sacred heart centre.

Allow it to merge with the energy that is already there.

These 3 energies become one. Feel this energy. What does it feel like knowing you are connected to the heart of God?

As these energies continue to merge, they radiate out from your heart centre - they fill every single cell of your physical body, then this 3 in 1 energy radiates outwards and fills your entire aura. You can expand it as far as you wish.

Allow this energy to fill the room you are in.

You are in a safe and beautiful place in which you may invite your guides and any other Being of Light or Light Energy.

This is the space where you may invite the Ray energies and communicate with them to find out what they can do to help you.......................

When you are ready bring your focus back to your physical heart and feel it pumping once more.

Thank your heart for keeping you alive.

Thank Mother Earth for her support during this process.

Thank God for 'be'ing with you.

Thank your guides or Light energies for joining you.

Wiggle your fingers and toes and open your eyes.

Keep a journal of what happens during these meditations.

Love and blessings



This is a skeptics site; yours is all about belief without evidence, why should it surprise you that such an approach gets little support here?

[farmersboy]

This is a skeptics site; yours is all about belief without evidence, why should it surprise you that such an approach gets little support here?


Quite - that's the biggest load of cock I've read in a long time.

[filippo lippi]

Please feel free to ask me questions now that I am here. I am not using a name to cover my identity. I have nothing to hide.


Will you ever return to answer the questions that so many have posed?

[chillzero]

bump for Sue.

::)

[filippo lippi]

Tomorrow's the one-month-aversary of Sue's promise to answer questions.

I'm baking a cake and icing it with, "I have nothing to hide."

Honest.

[lazerustheduck]

I would like to add a purely personal comment to this board. I myself suffer from M.E., M.E. and fibromyalgia are closely linked and I know a fair few people with either or both.
I can't work, I have in fact got a settee set up in front of my computer and only sit up to type messages. Nothing gets on my tits more than someone who claims benefits because of this condition and still works. I would give my left nut to be able to resume working and know plenty of people that are in the same position.
Not only this but as a condition with no valid cure we are prayed on daily by shysters like Sue who run treatments that leave the more gullable of us lighter of pocket and severly iller of health.

Now that's out of my system I'll go and have a quick kip to build my energy up for tonights sleep.

[filippo lippi]

As she has "nothing to hide" I've taken the liberty of reminding Sue about this thread via the "contact" button on her website.

[Sue Fraser]

Hi everyone

I am so sorry I didn't realise anyone had made any comments. I wrongly assumed that I would be informed if anyone answered my own comments. Is there a way I can be reminded?

I have just spent the last hour almost, replying to these posts and when I pressed the button to preview what I had written everything disappeared and I had to re-log on.

I can't remember everything I said in detail but basically I have used my own system to help heal my own illnesses. It has taken years and lots of money in training and research in different methods. Each technique has to be proved at the time with case studies, so I am not teaching anything until it is already proven to work.

I would answer you all individually if I had more time. sorry but I am babysitting my granddaughter tonight and she needs my attention.

I was so ill for so many years until i looked for alternative cures. I am not 100% still but I am so much better and happier than I have ever been. I am not on any benefits now as I am well enough to work part time for a lovely organization that helps the homeless and supports them into accommodation. I am helping to make a difference and that feels good to me.

I do practice Reiki and working with my own system daily on myself. It works for me. I only teach it to people who wish to be taught and who are ready to release past belief patterns in order to become well, as I was.

I will definitely return to answer your questions at another time. Please remind me if I don't get any other indication that there are queries for me to answer.

I wish you all well and hope that those of you who are ill find relief from the pain in a way that is suitable for you. We all have our own methods that work for us individually.

lazerustheduck I know lots of info I can pass on to you if you are willing to think outside the box.... there's lots of research into ME and fibromyalgia now around nutrition etc to help deal with this illness. I'm happy to pass on the info. It helped me....

I look forward to communicating with you soon.

Sue :smiley:

[Matt]

Hi everyone

I am so sorry I didn't realise anyone had made any comments. I wrongly assumed that I would be informed if anyone answered my own comments. Is there a way I can be reminded?

At the top of the page click on thread tools and then Subscribe to this thread.


I have just spent the last hour almost, replying to these posts and when I pressed the button to preview what I had written everything disappeared and I had to re-log on.

Ouch it's happened to me in the past. Apparently happens when your login times out. It can be very frustrating. I advise hitting Ctrl A, Ctrl C before clicking the button.


I can't remember everything I said in detail but basically I have used my own system to help heal my own illnesses. It has taken years and lots of money in training and research in different methods. Each technique has to be proved at the time with case studies, so I am not teaching anything until it is already proven to work.

I would answer you all individually if I had more time. sorry but I am babysitting my granddaughter tonight and she needs my attention.

I was so ill for so many years until i looked for alternative cures. I am not 100% still but I am so much better and happier than I have ever been. I am not on any benefits now as I am well enough to work part time for a lovely organization that helps the homeless and supports them into accommodation. I am helping to make a difference and that feels good to me.

I do practice Reiki and working with my own system daily on myself. It works for me. I only teach it to people who wish to be taught and who are ready to release past belief patterns in order to become well, as I was.

I will definitely return to answer your questions at another time. Please remind me if I don't get any other indication that there are queries for me to answer.

I wish you all well and hope that those of you who are ill find relief from the pain in a way that is suitable for you. We all have our own methods that work for us individually.

lazerustheduck I know lots of info I can pass on to you if you are willing to think outside the box.... there's lots of research into ME and fibromyalgia now around nutrition etc to help deal with this illness. I'm happy to pass on the info. It helped me....

I look forward to communicating with you soon.

Sue :smiley:


Gald you're feeling better, also glad you're interested in putting your beliefs to the test. Are you familar with the phrase post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc)

[lazerustheduck]

lazerustheduck I know lots of info I can pass on to you if you are willing to think outside the box.... there's lots of research into ME and fibromyalgia now around nutrition etc to help deal with this illness. I'm happy to pass on the info. It helped me....

I look forward to communicating with you soon.

Sue :smiley:I know there is a hell of a lot of Woo around ME, since I've seen the sad sort of life you lead and amount of rotten sludge you issue to naive people I hope you don't mind my passing on your snake oil.

[Sue Fraser]

Hi

I know there is a hell of a lot of Woo around ME, since I've seen the sad sort of life you lead and amount of rotten sludge you issue to naive people I hope you don't mind my passing on your snake oil.
I actually lead a very happy life, and I'm glad that someone took the time to introduce me to the systems that I then went on to train in. I certainly didn't enjoy being in the state that you are now in and am glad I was able to eventually move out of it. I hope you find your own way to do so, it isn't a nice place to be in.
I wish you happiness.
Sue

[Sue Fraser]

Hi Matt

Thank you for your help. Hopefully I can now reply when anyone asks any more questions. Once again I apologse for the delay.

I am always happy to put my beliefs to the test.
Sue

[Matt]

Hi Matt

Thank you for your help. Hopefully I can now reply when anyone asks any more questions. Once again I apologse for the delay.

I am always happy to put my beliefs to the test.
Sue

Glad to hear it. Certain claims about nutrition may not be necessarily paranormal. Plausible mechanism's exist as to why ME like symptoms may occassionally be the result of potassium deficiency.

Proof that reiki is more effective than placebo in the treatment of any disease would be something quite special, however.

Did you click on that link regarding Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc)? What did you think?

[Sue Fraser]

Hi

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
I have no intention of 'slagging you off' so I hope you won't mind discussing some things.

Thank you for the welcome.

My concern is that you list a lot of health problems you struggle with. Having struggled with several health issues myself I can sympathise.

How does that impact your ability to 'teach' other people how to "Heal themselves with Rays" ? What have you achieved in healing yourself in this manner, that you use as evidence to your pupils?

The products I use and sell are based on my training in Aromatherapy, Colour Therapy (Rays) and Flower Essences (similar to Bach Remedies but using flowers from Scotland). All these methods have been tried and tested for years. I have simply combined them to introdce the system I now teach . I use my own system to heal myself, as I achieve success with myself I pass on the information. It's an ongoing process, I'm still testing it and do not teach any part that I have not yet tested personally and on others as case studies. Combining it with Reiki has really helped me. I am simply passing on what I have found to be personally effective.


You sell Healing Spray number 2: "A lovely healing spray, brings flow into blockages. Use to attract support. Use when healing any ‘heart’ issues, to open up to give and receive love. Also spray to connect with Kuthumi and Archangels Jophiel and Constance."
Did you try this as a remedy for your ailments? What were the results?
I assume you will also utilise Ray Spray 20 to assist you in getting back on your feet and back to work?

We are all unique individuals. Personally the sprays that have worked best for me up until now are 1, 9 and 17 which are all made from a combination of grounding, re-energizing and revitalising essential oils, flower essences and colours. I have had great success with this combination on myself and others as I have been working on my base chakra, which is what I believe is needed in order to help aleviate the symptoms of ME etc. It has worked for me....

My next project for me is working with Rays 2, 10 & 18 together as I work on past issues to do with trauma, pain and abuse as a child. These are all connected to the sacral chakra and the body organs connected with it. When I have results I will pass them on....

You say that you cured a sinus problem with homeopathy - would you mind letting us know what kind of sinus problem, and what remedies cured it for you?

I have suffered with sinus problems since I was a child - I have been told that it's related on an emotional level to unshed tears. A lot of psychology studies have been carried on around this theory. I'm still looking into it myself. I'm not sure what the remedy was that my homeopath gave to me, I will ask her next time I go for a treatment. I also believe it has to do with having my nose broken on a couple of occasions during abusive relationships, which I no longer attract.

Regards,
chillzero


I am happy to answer any questions. Sorry it's taken so long to reply.

Sue

[Sue Fraser]

Hi

I agree. I don't think nutrition is paranormal at all. I'm not sure that I mentioned that? I have used a combination of various metods for my own healing. I wondered if the nutrition side might have been acceptable for the person who thinks I prey on vulnerable people? I was once classed as a vulnerable person, some still class me as such with my physical disability which I was born with and don't really have much chance of changing as it's a structural thing. I was really grateful that people took the time to bring 'alternate' forms of treatment to my notice. I am not trying to sell any of my products on here or even market my work, I am simply answering questions that have been raised by people who seem to think it's ok to slag people off who are helping others while empathising with their situation. I remain quite baffled as to why this would be. We are all unique individuals and I accept that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another, I would never, however, assume that what has worked for someone else even though it doesn't appeal to me was invalid.

I did look at the quote. Am I right in assuming that you might be thinking that other factors might have helped me to gain better health rather than using my own system? Because I tried everything and was still at my wits end and then I tested my own system and it worked.....

I believe that the time also has to be right. I really wanted to be well, I missed out on so much with my family that I wanted to share, now I can to a certain extent within my own physical limitations. I am happier personally than I can ever remember.

The placebo effect fascinates me too. I have a book called 'It's the thought that counts' by David Hamilton, a scientist who worked in the pharmaceutical industry and wo tested the placebo effect. Like I said, it's fascinating. I believe quantum physics is the way forward for humanity.

If I got the quote thing wrong, let me know.

Sue

[Matt]

I did look at the quote. Am I right in assuming that you might be thinking that other factors might have helped me to gain better health rather than using my own system? Because I tried everything and was still at my wits end and then I tested my own system and it worked.....

Thats exactly right.

It's fair to say you tested your own system and then you got better. Sceptics will point out that this doesn't automatically mean that the cause of you getting better was your system.

Right now I have a headache. I've taken two paracetamol, smoked a cigarette, eaten a minimilk, I'm conversing with you, I'm just about to stop staring at this computer screen.

Using the post hoc falalacy if in 15 minutes my headache is gone I might say.

I tried taking two parcetamol and it worked.

I might just as well say I tried smoking a cigarette and it worked. Or I ate a minimilk and spoke to Sue Fraser and that's what made my headache go away. I might say that I stopped starring at a computer screen and that cured my headache.

In actual fact I haven't proven any causal relationship between any of these actions and my headache going away (I hope)

You testing your system may not have been what cured you. It might have been that someone on the same bus as you had magic healing powers and healed you without your knowledge, or that the stars aligned in just such a way as to heal you as you passed over a leyline. Or it may be that some parts or your system were effective and others are of no use whatsoever.

What might help is if you provide a plausible mechanism by which your system might act in the way that you suspect that it does.

Systematic testing might go on to reveal and and offer proof to others that you're on to something and may even provide way to isolate the most effective parts of your system. Just like the age old folk wisdom of willow bark was refined into today's asprin.

If it works we should be able to prove it and make it better.

I tried it and then I got better is just the start.

[Sue Fraser]

Hi

Thank you for your wisdom. Yes I totally agree which is why others are testing my system of combining 3 already tried and tested theories... When I have their testimonials I will post them on my site.

Try drinking lots of water, it helps to flush away the toxins :smiley:

Sue

[chillzero]

Hi

I use my own system to heal myself, as I achieve success with myself I pass on the information. It's an ongoing process, I'm still testing it and do not teach any part that I have not yet tested personally and on others as case studies. Combining it with Reiki has really helped me. I am simply passing on what I have found to be personally effective.

Apart from the great information given above by Matt, I'd wonder ... how can you claim it's effective or successful, when you still claim to be ill?

[lazerustheduck]

Hi

Thank you for your wisdom. Yes I totally agree which is why others are testing my system of combining 3 already tried and tested theories... When I have their testimonials I will post them on my site.

Try drinking lots of water, it helps to flush away the toxins :smiley:

SueDrinking lots of water will actually push your electrolytes out of balance and also exacerbate any body pains you are feeling. Please give sensible advice if you are going to give anything at all.

[Matt]

Hi

Thank you for your wisdom. Yes I totally agree which is why others are testing my system of combining 3 already tried and tested theories... When I have their testimonials I will post them on my site.

Try drinking lots of water, it helps to flush away the toxins :smiley:

Sue

Perhaps you could tell us a little bit more about your system and how you think it works.

Apprently drinking lots of water won't do much to aid your liver and kidneys unless you're severly dehydrated. Despite various sources of misinformation (often from peopel selling de tox aids or diet plans) most people aren't even slightly dehydrated and tea, coffee, beer and orange juice or coca cola will hydrate you just as much as water. Yes there's a duretic effect but really, if you're used to drinking six cups of tea a day it's not going to make an appeciable net difference.

[Sue Fraser]

Hi everyone

Shall we just agree that no matter what I say you will not accept it. I did not ask to be victimised on here, you took it on board to do that. I offered my point of view which you don't agree with. I don't have time to keep logging on to here for more of the same.

I hope you all find something to believe in and I wish you all good health and happiness, and yes I am not 100% well but I am far better than I have ever been. My skeletal system is deformed which causes lots of pain some times. I use my system to alleviate this - it works for me.

Goodbye folks. I will not be replying to any more messages.

I wish you all a very happy life.

Sue

[NorthernSoul]

Sue,

Should you ever come back to read this please take a few moments to think.

Nobody has victimised you, the fact is that the users of this forum require a higher quality of evidence than you seem to. I am sure it is very comforting to you to be able to say "I cured myself and now I can help others" but, Sue, what if you're wrong?

I, at the moment, believe you are a caring individual, who has a real desire to help people, but, however convinced you are that your system works, if you are wrong, you could be doing more harm than good.

To simply say "I tried it on myself, and it worked" is just not acceptable to anybody who is thinking rationally, especially if you can't even explain a mechanism for how your cure could possibly work. People who are not thinking rationally though, vulnerable people, or children who have no voice of their own may accept what you are saying at your word.

Don't kid yourself, you have no proof, not a shred of evidence that your techniques work and don't seem to be serious about pursuing the attainment of such evidence. Testimonials really don't cut it.

We would all love to think that your techniques really work, but you have done nothing to convince us of that. What will you do Sue, if somebody comes to you instead of a real medical professional and dies because they did not seek real medical care? You are gambling with people lives. Will you use your techniques on your grandchildren Sue?

Take a step back and re-evaluate your claims. Otherwise, someone may pay the ultimate price for your lack of critical thinking in this moment.

The people on this forum, I am sure, will hold out their hands to you and give you as much guidance as they can in, safely, researching your ideas, but if you expect courtesy while you play with peoples health, then you are arrogant.

I sincerely hope you realise that the way you are proceeding at present is wrong, and decide to cease practising your techniques until they can be properly tested and verified, for your own health and happiness.

[Matt]

Hi everyone

Shall we just agree that no matter what I say you will not accept it. I did not ask to be victimised on here, you took it on board to do that. I offered my point of view which you don't agree with. I don't have time to keep logging on to here for more of the same.

I'm sorry that you feel victimised. Some poeple here have been rather abrupt, sadly that's the way of the Internet. Others here have politely asked for more information about your system and the standards of evidence that support it. Unfortunately there are indeed many frauds out there and it's quite common for them to react to demands for evidence by playing the victim card.

In Gary Mannion's last post here he revealed that he had convincing clinical evidence that his psychic surgery worked. But he wasn't going to reveal it to anybody at all because one of our number had taken the liberty on checking up on the references he'd provided and found that he'd been lying. Or as he put it he was being victimized. We were all punished for that one persons doggedness.

I hope that's not the case here. Remember you're charging for your services, your claiming that you can cure. Being able to provide evidence that your sytem works is a legal requirement and demanding such evidence isn't mean, nasty, bullying behaviour it's entirely rational.

My little boy recently had his jabs. Of course I demanded evidence that these were safe and effective. Of course I asked how they were supposed to work, what ingedients were in them and why they were there. I'm not alone, millions of interested parties do the same every year. No-one got in a huff and said we were victimising the pharmaceutical industry. Instead the evidence was provided and it convinced me.

Now what do you think is different between your system and the immunisations that we gave to my boy? Why don't you think you can't convince us your system works?

Clearly there is such a thing as evidence. Clearly we're rational people here who accept evidence. In my time here I'm changed my mind about many things based upon evidence and rational argument.

Do you think your sytem could work without it being possible to provide convincing evidence of that?

Even if you don't have such evidence right now, aren't you interested in the standards of evidence that are required to be convincing in a scientific and legal sense. How to set about systematically gathering such evidence. How to use that evidence to isolate the most effetcive aspects of your system and thus improve it and be of greater help and benefit to the vulneralbe and desperate people who turn to you for help?

That's what I wanted to discuss with you and I'll be disappointed if you don't come back to carry on this conversation. Not only for the enjoyment I get from learning and teaching, but for your patients and students who I sincerely belive could get a whole lot more out of thier time with you if you were to embrace the evidence based approach of modern medicine that has doubled life expectancies in the last 200 years.

If you don't think it's possible to provide convincing evidence does that mean you don't truly believe that your system works?


I hope you all find something to believe in and I wish you all good health and happiness, and yes I am not 100% well but I am far better than I have ever been. My skeletal system is deformed which causes lots of pain some times. I use my system to alleviate this - it works for me.

I do have something to believe in. I have faith that the universe operates accoriding to fixed rules which may be revealed by observation and experimentation. Frankly were it not for the people who share that belief I'd be dead. I hope you believe it too.


Goodbye folks. I will not be replying to any more messages.

I wish you all a very happy life.

Sue

Au revoir

[Dubious Dick]

Sadly yet another example of the 'Faith is a place that will never be reached by the caravan of reason' school.

Don't know where that expression comes from but I've heard it a few times from believers and they just tend to shut down when challenged (whether pleasantly or not).

Good effort guys.

[Sue Fraser]

Hi

I'm not running away I simply don't have time for this. The systems that I have combined to make my own system are all tried and tested from the beginnings of scientific studies into medical studies. I don't need to justify anything on here. I am simply being creative in the way that I offer this combination. Any of you, f you are interested, can do the research that I did personally and the testing i did personally, to verify whether or not these methods work for you. They worked for me and they have worked for thousands of other people around the globe, throughout history. that's the proof that I needed. I am not testing out some half baked theory in order to make a quick buck. I have trained in various techniques to further my own qualifications since the mid 1980s when I qualified, after a lot of hard work to become an Aromatherapist. You can look up on the internet or any of the thousands of text books on the subject to make your mind up whether you believe in it or not. I trained and studied in flower essences, as created by Dr Bach, for a number of years too until I qualified as a practitioner. I then trained in colour therapy until I gained the level of teacher. All valid qualifications. At the same time I trained in reiki until I qualified as a teacher. I also believe there are a lot of scams around which is why I belong to professional bodies who are regulating these systems. All your views are valid to you as mine are to me, after studying, training and proving them for myself over many years. I can't give you the answers you are asking for in a post on here. I can only suggest that you do what I did and prove it for yourselves if you're really tat interested in finding out and not just amusing yourselves at my expense. I am really busy and am sorry that I can't spend more time on here answering your questions. It's not because I don't want to, I simply don't have the time.

Again I wish you all the best and hope you find what you are searching for. My granddaughter loves my products by the way, so do my daughters and family and friends and clients around the world.

Au revoir for now.

Sue

[lazerustheduck]

You've got time to reply to messages you 'will not be replying to any more', with long winded block texts but can't stop to answer simple questions? Well at least it's nice to know your still reading the forum.

[NorthernSoul]

The systems that I have combined to make my own system are all tried and tested from the beginnings of scientific studies into medical studies.

Which studies and trials?


I don't need to justify anything on here.

That is usually what people who can't justify anything say.

I hope, for the sake of your grandchildren, who do NOT love your snake oil, you and your children force it up on, that one day they grow up to realise how dillusional and dispicable you are. You suggest we do research, what if we do and find that your "products" have the same health benefit of a smack round the face? Will you listen? No probably not, you have realised you can make money out of selling rubbish and are now dilluding yourself that it works in some effort to justify your behaviour.

You have ignored everything anybody has asked or suggested to you and ignorant and arrogant of, what, everything?

I sincerely hope, that nobody close to you is made ill and their illness exaserbated by your idiocy. I do, however, hope that some day you face criminal charges.

[Free Spirit]

I was very interested to come across this thread due to having a lot of personal experience of being a member of one of Sue Fraser's 'meditation and spiritual development' groups. I knew her for over a year and broke away about 18 months ago, so anything I say is limited to my knowledge of her up until this time.


Benefit claims:


Firstly, I would like to state that I do not doubt Sue Fraser's claims to have ME and fibromyalgia. I don't think she would have been well enough to go out to full-time work at the point at which I knew her. However, I do have issues with people claiming benefit when they are regularly getting sums of money 'on the side' (sometimes quite large ones). I find it hard to believe that she was staying within the permitted 16 hours of work at week at a maximum of £92 earnings a week for up to a period of a year. My evidence for this comes from the fact that she held a weekly group at £6 a head (this was averaging 4-8 people) plus was doing treatments for anyone who wanted them, including renting a room at a local holistic centre for a while before moving to doing treatments in her house. On top of this, she had a stand at a 2 day holistic fayre in early 2007, followed by hosting her own holistic fayre in Newton Abbot during May 2007. Admittedly, she was exhausted after the latter event but my issue is with the money she raised rather than me claiming she was not really ill.


In addition, she also took in a lodger (a member of her group) who she charged £300 a month in rent. This should have lasted for about 5 months but due to her becoming unreasonable and nasty to her lodger, the lodger moved out after paying two months' rent. This was done cash in hand, as was the group work and many treatments. She also started running workshops, at a high price! She claimed her guides told her to set these prices as part of her not undervaluing herself.


Interestingly Sue's website newsletter says:



I had been claiming sickness benefit since returning from India (Oct 07) and hadn’t realised that when you are claiming any kind of benefit in this country you are not allowed to market your business in any way (e.g. her website).
However, she fails to say that she was actually claiming benefits long before this. Even in early 2007, she stated that she needed to see her GP when she had a bug as 'it's my GP who signs my note' (aka, sickness benefit note). It was common knowledge from the early days that she was on incapacity benefit. It is fascinating that she now says that she's got a job - it would be hard to survive otherwise considering the benefits people were investigating her for fraud!


In retrospect, it felt like Sue Fraser was on a mission to get as much money as possible from people. She could always think of new things to charge for and even did distant channelled readings for people abroad (as well as attuning them to the Rays), which of couse she also charged a lot for.



Qualifications:


I would also like to see evidence of these scientific and 'psychology' studies that Sue Fraser says back up her qualifications. Indeed, her website states she has the following ones (what a list!):




Magenta R.O.E.S.



The Rays of Emergence System



(channeled from the Ascended Master Djwhal Khul)



Founder 2006




Magenta R.O.E.S. Reiki



Master/ Teacher



Founder 2007




Magenta R.O.E.S. Reiki for kids of all ages!



Master/ Teacher



Founder 2008




Aromatherapist



(Purple Flame School of Aromatherapy)




Findhorn Flower Essence Therapist



(Findhorn, Scotland)




Colourworks Colour Therapist & Teacher



(Colourworks, South Africa)




Angelic Initiations 1,2 & 3



(Debbie Clayton, Angels of Light, Cornwall)




Meditation & Spiritual Development Teacher




Sirian Attunement & Cosmic Activation



(Paul McCarthy, Sirius Temple of Ascension)




Andromedan Attunement & Cosmic Activation



(Paul MCCarthy, Sirius Temple of Ascension)




Usui Shiki Ryoho Reiki



Level II & Master/Teacher



(Julie Ward, Arc of Light, Sheffield)




Transformational Healing Facilitator



(Pat Angove, New Gaia Network, Torquay, UK)




Phytobiophysics Practitioner


Hmm, I don't actually think that many of these have professional bodies in the same way as acupuncture or psychotherapy. The Magenta ROES reiki may look impressive until you read that it is
is a new system channeled and devised by founder Sue Fraser I would question how you can prove its effectiveness when it is invented by the person who claimed to create it, and when it has only been around for a very short period of time. It is also interesting (on a cynical money-grabbing sales note) how there is conveniently a large number of ray essences and sprays, readings, attunements, mandalas, etc, that you simply must have to advance your spiritual journey - so one thing leads to another. It also feels like Sue Fraser has dabbled in many things from her qualifications, suggesting she is a jack of all trades, master of none. That is just my opinion. Her 'channelled paintings' aren't bad but don't look particularly extraordinary to me. Anyone with some imagination could do the same. The sprays also smell nice but are allegedly from channelled 'recipes' which gives them their unique healing and empowering properties. Aka, they are water, flower essences and a few other bits thrown in. They may smell good and make you feel calmer, stimulated or bring back nice memories but I'd like to know how they are supposed to work on a deeper healing level. For example, ray 21 is supposed to
Lifts you and frees you from karmic patterns, allowing you to step into your own Light. A powerful detoxifier, allowing your life force to flow freely. Use your intention to bring clarity of perception to the information you are receiving. That's a pretty big claim and not particularly testable!

It is interesting how Sue Fraser talks about there being scientific evidence for her aromatherapy and flower essence qualifications (still to be provided), yet fails to mention her channelling and healing work. It is indeed very difficult to prove that you are being given messages and direction from an ascended master and all you actually have in this area is either belief or scepticism. Belief either comes from simple faith or personal experience (valid if that applies to a person and they have faith in that) - none of which stand up to rigorous scientific testing when marketing yourself. Note that Sue Fraser also states that she has combined her methods to create her own systems - therefore they are not scientifically tried and tested. Although she talks about case studies, she does not have control groups and does not seem to take into account the placebo effect enough. I would also question why she has not managed to heal herself at a much quicker rate given her allegedly impressive website. Indeed, it could be argued that it is time and rest that has simply got her to this stage of recovery.

One of Sue Fraser's weaknesses is that she promoted blind faith. Questionning anything was seen as you not having enough belief and would ultimately lead to your downfall (e.g. having to firmly focus on getting pregnant, meeting your soulmate, etc, without wavering). I think she was desperate to believe this herself, hence why she took this stance. However, a good teacher encourages you to look at the pros and cons then leaves you with choice - in other words, you can choose to believe or not. Sue Fraser had a habit of rejecting people who didn't quite fit in with 'her energy', turning it against them as being somehow less pure than herself.


Her philosophy:


I believe that Sue Fraser genuinely sees herself as a kind and caring person who just wants to help other people. However, I also believe that this is a state of cognitive dissonance which she uses to justify to herself that her way of life is ok. When you really get to know Sue Fraser, you realise that she does not practise what she teaches. She talks about tolerance, inclusion and letting things go yet maintained quite a high level of hostility towards her ex-lodger for a while, blaming it on a clash in energies and listing lots of things her lodger was allegedly doing to upset her (which was incorrect, in my view). She talked a lot about how she had to learn to value herself and put herself first but this also made her come across as quite selfish. She used group members to help her out on a voluntary basis with both of her holistic fayres yet showed little gratitude and seemed to think they were her slave labour. She also seemed to lack manners in communicating in a polite and friendly way with people. The persona and image did not match up with the Sue underneath all of that, leaving a glaring inconsistency for those who got to know her well and started doubting her legitimacy.


I feel that Sue Fraser spends so much time escaping to the 'higher dimensions' that she's lost touch with the reality on earth. She even came out with the 'revelation' one day that she realised she had no idea about nutrition because she'd never learnt about it in her last life (we won't look at the obvious here and look at her lack of schooling or parental input in this area!). Sue Fraser is clearly, and completely understandably (this is not a criticism), suffering from the effects of multiple abuse throughout her current lifetime which still require a lot of healing (I would personally recommend long term psychotherapy over nice smelling sprays), but I worry that she is looking for vulnerable people to become their 'teacher', encouraging them to part with lots of money in the blind faith that it can cure their problems. I know because I was one of those people - keen to try anything to feel better and healthier both physically and emotionally.


So, having 'tried and tested' Sue Fraser's many techniques over a long period of time, I'm afraid that I am a sceptic. I felt a bit calmer (a common result of meditating regularly) but had no longer term health benefits and didn't gain anything from using sprays or being with the 'energies' of her paintings (I didn't feel any energy). However, it took a while for the rose tinted specs to fall away and realise what a fool she was playing me for before I realised how much I'd been scammed. Yes, there is some basic stuff in what she says about guardian angels and things like that, but anything more specific and Ray related is less concrete and up to individuals to weigh up.


The choice is yours.

[bindeweede]

Free Spirit,

Welcome to UKS, and thank you for that substantial and well-prepared post. I'm not sure about the "guardian angels" stuff, but the rest is fascinating.

[bindeweede]

Oh, forgot .....


I'm afraid that I am a sceptic.

Nothing to fear, I'd say.

[Admin]

I'm afraid that I am a sceptic.

Not believing in Sue Fraser's quackery doesn't mean you're a skeptic. 'Not believing' does not equal 'skeptic'. That's the equivocation fallacy. Explained here: http://www.ukskeptics.com/cms/on-skeptics-skeptics-and-skeptics/

The key to all of this is, of course, not down to whether someone fiddles their benefits or takes rent cash-in-hand (something we should note are not substantiated here and are Ad Hominem points regarding Sue's medical claims) - but whether any of these claims can be tested or proven in any way.

I would say claims regarding Guardian Angels can be scrutinised and found just as wanting as Sue's sprays, energy pictures, or aromatherapies, etc.

[Trinoc]

Perhaps Free Spirit meant "sceptic" (with a "c") in the popular, English sense of "non-believer", not "skeptic" (with a "k") which we in the forum usually mean in the traditional sense of wishing to see evidence before believing any claim.

I have to admit my confidence in the completeness of the de-scamming dropped rather a lot when I read the bit at the end about guardian angels, though.

[dizzyblonde]

Well, I would like to thank free spirit for posting here. The post confirms my fears that people can be easily duped by charismatic individuals like Sue Fraser.

[Free Spirit]

Perhaps Free Spirit meant "sceptic" (with a "c") in the popular, English sense of "non-believer", not "skeptic" (with a "k") which we in the forum usually mean in the traditional sense of wishing to see evidence before believing any claim.

I have to admit my confidence in the completeness of the de-scamming dropped rather a lot when I read the bit at the end about guardian angels, though.

Sorry, when I mentioned the bit about guardian angels, I meant that has been quite widely believed in the psychic world (and even in the Bible) for many years, not that I think there is necessarily truth in it. Sue Fraser's Magenta Rays of Emergence System claims, etc, however are new, very different and the sales pitch is specifically aimed at healing people physically and emotionally and helping them to move forward with their lives. I think there is a difference in harmlessly wanting to believe there is something out there (in the sense of wanting to boost your sense of life purpose and reduce distress around dying), and possibly harmfully believing that something in the spiritual world has the power to heal you of current physical illness and/or emotional trauma - or even claims that these originate from a past life and need specific transformational healing.

I would class myself as both a skeptic and a sceptic actually. I started as the first and, through research and personal experience (which I approached with an open mind and a willingness to believe if I was convinced enough by the results), I have progressed to the second.

My main concern is that Sue Fraser's treatment claims are not literally swallowed whole by vulnerable people who just end up spending out a lot of money on unproven techniques and, in the process, may endanger their health by neglecting to seek proper medical care.

[Trinoc]

Sorry, when I mentioned the bit about guardian angels, I meant that has been quite widely believed in the psychic world (and even in the Bible) for many years, not that I think there is necessarily truth in it.
OK, my misunderstanding. It did seem a bit out of tune with the rest of your post, so I wondered whether I was missing something. People who start off on psychic stuff and then get disillusioned usually get completely disillusioned ... it would be rare for anyone to hang onto just one small aspect and reject the rest*.

[* Though having said that, I know someone who is skeptical about most matters and yet is a practising homeopath ...]

[tolman]

Presumably, it's also harder to charge money for alleged guardian angels than for bottles of random magical scent, which I suppose does put them on some different level.