WOO FROM WOO-WOO land!

[Tin Lizzie]

Hello Peeps.

We the representatives of the people of WOO, would like to begin a thread here, where we would like you the skeptic, just for the duration of your stay in this thread, to imagine that you are in fact one of us; that you can see white sheets floating above your head in the night; that you can hear strrrange noises coming from the room next door when nobody is there; that you get your friend Bob's old auntie Beatrice, who died of sclerosis of the liver five years ago, popping in all the time and pestering you to tell him to put his jacket on a hangar in the cupboard and not on the floor, she bought it from Marks & Sparks and it deserves to be looked after; that you get fed up with other people labelling you, castrating (sorry - castigating) you for what you do.

Imagine that you are born with this, or that you have been somehow made aware of it later in life. Is it a curse, being opened up to other peoples' grief, trauma and personal tragedy? Or is it a gift, which you can use to guide yourself and others, to shine a light into the dark recesses of others' lives? Should you 'go mainstream' - 'go public' and try to sell your ability at all costs? Should you stay low-key, enjoying those free sittings more than anything? Would you be able to afford this?

All I am asking is this; how would your life change if you knew the spirit plane was real and alongside us? What would you do? Would you help people? Would you sit and drink tea with Marco Polo?

Your thoughts, please!

[lara123]

aha-i am delighted to be a member of woo-woo land.knowing a bit about woo-woo land has many benefits as far as im concerned.firstly knowing that spirit exists certainly gives you something to look forward to after death and does ease the fear.

of course ,another reason is being able to help other other people,but i am cautious with people who have recently lost someone,and dont recommend a reading,reasons being,usually nothing is enough,the grief is too raw and i actually recommend grief councelling highly.But in due time,when they have healed somewhat,it can be very comforting to know our loved ones are 'alive'.

[Tin Lizzie]

aha-i am delighted to be a member of woo-woo land.knowing a bit about woo-woo land has many benefits as far as im concerned.firstly knowing that spirit exists certainly gives you something to look forward to after death and does ease the fear.
of course ,another reason is being able to help other other people,but i am cautious with people who have recently lost someone,and dont recommend a reading,reasons being,usually nothing is enough,the grief is too raw and i actually recommend grief councelling highly.But in due time,when they have healed somewhat,it can be very comforting to know our loved ones are 'alive'.

Hi Lara.
As you and I have discussed on the WOO forum, I can remember my first contact with my guides as though it was yesterday. I can remember my very first premonition as though it was yesterday too, although it was 22 years ago.

Can you remember your first contact with the spirit world? How did it affect you and your relationships at the time?

[lara123]

mine was totally unexpected 8 yrs ago,had a handful of strange things happen before that but i think most people do,one morning,a few days after my friends father had passed ,i was alone in the house and felt a prod in my back,he gave me his name,and said to me i'll be with you for a yr.now,it was a tiny tiny whisper but i heard it clearly.i thought that was all a bit odd but nothing more but the next day i saw him,very very faint and fluid like,i could see him walking and then he sat down.over the next few days i was receiving messages to pass on to his daughter.

now,knowing i wasnt going mad,but confused because the name he gave me wasnt the name his daughter told me it was.i decided not to speak out as she was in grief of course and thought this strange thing would go away.

anyhow,the time i saw my friend,out of the blue-she told me her dads name wasnt the name he was born with,it was the name i had received.i was stunned,i literally stsrted to shake and she knew something was up.i had to tell her,she took it well,and asked for all other info to be given.the contact lasted almost daily for a yr.

then towards the end of that yr,i was seeing,hearing,sensing other spirit people.i was facinated.i spent 5 yrs[and still]understanding what i could about it.it really is amazing.

[lara123]

other relationships?i was begged for readings to the point of exhaustion!

[Tin Lizzie]

That's interesting, so it was as if he was still alive but in some other kind of body. Now, there are a lot of people who understandably find this difficult to believe, saying it is a hallucination, coincidence, your own subconsious or that you did cold-reading. What would you say to this?

Aside from that, have you had cause to be disappointed with spirits?

[seren]

that you can see white sheets floating above your head in the night
My first assumption is that I was dreaming, or half-dreaming. Then I'd probably think maybe the sheet was floating above my head because I was under it.
that you can hear strrrange noises coming from the room next door when nobody is there
Call the plumber. Or ask the neighbours to keep it down. Or just assume it's the house "settling". Or, in fact what I'd most likely do is mildly freak out that it's a burglar, then try to calm myself down because really it probably isn't. And it hasn't been....so far.

that you get your friend Bob's old auntie Beatrice, who died of sclerosis of the liver five years ago, popping in all the time and pestering you to tell him to put his jacket on a hangar in the cupboard and not on the floor, she bought it from Marks & Sparks and it deserves to be looked after

Straight to the psychiatrist. Meds please.

that you get fed up with other people labelling you, castrating (sorry - castigating) you for what you do.

I'm sure everyone on this forum can relate to that. Believers aren't nice about skeptics either you know. Both sides take flak and both whinge about it. Tis the way of things. If your beliefs are strong enough it shouldn't matter.

The point is I have a choice about how I interpret things. All the things you've mentioned don't mean I'm psychic or that there are spirits; they just mean I've chosen to interpret them that way.

aha-i am delighted to be a member of woo-woo land.knowing a bit about woo-woo land has many benefits as far as im concerned.firstly knowing that spirit exists certainly gives you something to look forward to after death and does ease the fear.

I'm very glad you get comfort and your fear eased, it must be a nice feeling. Personally I'm not particularly afraid of death, or should I say being dead. Why should I be? The thought of being in pain, struggling to breathe, whilst dying, that scares me. Actually being dead- not bothered in the least.

it can be very comforting to know our loved ones are 'alive'.

For some people, I'm sure. But the people who go for readings don't "know" their loved ones are alive. They believe that they are based on what the medium says. To "know" they were alive they'd need to see them, in person, and touch and hear them.

There's a website out there somewhere of a guy who knows he is being persecuted by MI5. He knows that Jon Snow is laughing at him and giving him messages through the channel 4 news. He knows that MI5 are implanting thoughts into his brain. He doesn't believe it, he knows it. Try arguing with him that it's all in his head, he won't believe you, he just "knows" that it's all true because he's "experienced" it. Should we accept that it's true because he says he knows it is?

[Lord Muck oGentry]

Hello Peeps.

We the representatives of the people of WOO, would like to begin a thread here, where we would like you the skeptic, just for the duration of your stay in this thread, to imagine that you are in fact one of us;

that you can see white sheets floating above your head in the night;

that you can hear strrrange noises coming from the room next door when nobody is there;

that you get your friend Bob's old auntie Beatrice, who died of sclerosis of the liver five years ago, popping in all the time and pestering you to tell him to put his jacket on a hangar in the cupboard and not on the floor, she bought it from Marks & Sparks and it deserves to be looked after;

that you get fed up with other people labelling you...


Righto, I'm imagining.

Now what?

[lara123]

That's interesting, so it was as if he was still alive but in some other kind of body. Now, there are a lot of people who understandably find this difficult to believe, saying it is a hallucination, coincidence, your own subconsious or that you did cold-reading. What would you say to this?

Aside from that, have you had cause to be disappointed with spirits?

yes,it was distinctly finer,of course people may find this hard to believe,if they havent experienced it,its understandable.For me,there was so much happening all at once,i knew it wasnt me going mad,i just knew,i had the lot,seeing ,them,hearing them etc and loads of info that was logged that came true,it wasnt always about the present and past.so i went on the evidence presented to me,for 5 yrs i logged many readings and dated them and just waited.there was simply too much in my favour to deny its existance.

cold-reading-i got hundreds of messages when i was on my own that turned out true.

[lara123]

oh yeah,there is disapointments,but i find personally most psychics dont want to go there but i think we should,no point giving the nicey nice bits only.

sometimes readings are a right pain,a struggle,so so faint and its so much hard work to get things.i dont know all the reasons why either,i know tiredness and stress can affect me,and some books say it can be because the spirits energy is weak.but,i dont know.

also i wish it was louder and clearer,some readings are flawless,but most its an effort to put it all together,so many things can be going on at the same time,feelings,pics and some can take a bit of time to unravel.but the most annoying one is,i wish it was perfect,and its not,often i get a snippep but i want it all.and i dont always understand everything i get,or the sitter too,but i try my best.

[Tin Lizzie]

Okay well what about nasty spirits? Isn't it a bit dangerous at times? Could you not be possessed?

I'm asking questions here, because after I started contacting spirit, I had a couple of pretty scary moments where my windows would slam shut if I thought about my boss at work and how i wanted to wreck his car or infect his computer - he was screwing me for hours and cash. I had these thoughts & my guides would respond quite angrily, but one time in particular as I was meditating I felt a sudden movement in the air. I was compelled to open my eyes (this is the only time, I always keep them closed) and sure enough there was, briefly a blur of a very wiry shape, kind of humanoid. Is it possible that this was a 'bad' spirit? what happens to these?

[lara123]

Okay well what about nasty spirits? Isn't it a bit dangerous at times? Could you not be possessed?

I'm asking questions here, because after I started contacting spirit, I had a couple of pretty scary moments where my windows would slam shut if I thought about my boss at work and how i wanted to wreck his car or infect his computer - he was screwing me for hours and cash. I had these thoughts & my guides would respond quite angrily, but one time in particular as I was meditating I felt a sudden movement in the air. I was compelled to open my eyes (this is the only time, I always keep them closed) and sure enough there was, briefly a blur of a very wiry shape, kind of humanoid. Is it possible that this was a 'bad' spirit? what happens to these?

maybe was a cheeky spirit,ive never had anything bad come through-way too scared of all that.or maybe you have a superbrain and caused this to happen.not all strange things are due to spirit remember.

[SimonC]

All I am asking is this; how would your life change if you knew the spirit plane was real and alongside us? What would you do? Would you help people? Would you sit and drink tea with Marco Polo?

Your thoughts, please!

For me to 'know' that the spirit plane was real would, a priori, mean that such a phenomenon had been proven in a tanglible, empirical context. At that point, I'd be as fascinated by it as I am by many other areas of human enquiry. It would, of course, be an utterly compelling field of enquiry and understanding.

Until that proof is forthcoming, however, ( 'personal proof' doesn't cut the mustard, for numerous reasons ) it can be no more 'real' to me than Bertrand Russell's celestial teapot, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Tin Lizzie]

Fair point but my window was firmly wedged and held open by a 'chock' of wood. Anyway, you know as well as i do that when meditating, your brain is relaxed yet also more focused than when you are in your normal daily frame of mind. Studies have shown how elite athletes can take advantage of this, because they are calm and alert too, so can move quickly and think clearly. This is why I doubt it was a hallucination.

[lara123]

My first assumption is that I was dreaming, or half-dreaming. Then I'd probably think maybe the sheet was floating above my head because I was under it.

Call the plumber. Or ask the neighbours to keep it down. Or just assume it's the house "settling". Or, in fact what I'd most likely do is mildly freak out that it's a burglar, then try to calm myself down because really it probably isn't. And it hasn't been....so far.
hope it stays that way too!


Straight to the psychiatrist. Meds please.
oh---------hilarious. can we come too?


I'm sure everyone on this forum can relate to that. Believers aren't nice about skeptics either you know. Both sides take flak and both whinge about it. Tis the way of things. If your beliefs are strong enough it shouldn't matter.yep

The point is I have a choice about how I interpret things. All the things you've mentioned don't mean I'm psychic or that there are spirits; they just mean I've chosen to interpret them that way.



I'm very glad you get comfort and your fear eased, it must be a nice feeling. Personally I'm not particularly afraid of death, or should I say being dead. Why should I be? The thought of being in pain, struggling to breathe, whilst dying, that scares me. Actually being dead- not bothered in the least. how true



For some people, I'm sure. But the people who go for readings don't "know" their loved ones are alive. They believe that they are based on what the medium says. To "know" they were alive they'd need to see them, in person, and touch and hear them. not nessarily,some have faith and a sensing of spirit before they go.

There's a website out there somewhere of a guy who knows he is being persecuted by MI5. He knows that Jon Snow is laughing at him and giving him messages through the channel 4 news. He knows that MI5 are implanting thoughts into his brain. He doesn't believe it, he knows it. Try arguing with him that it's all in his head, he won't believe you, he just "knows" that it's all true because he's "experienced" it. Should we accept that it's true because he says he knows it is? only accept whats true for you.and i accept whats true to me.

[lara123]

Fair point but my window was firmly wedged and held open by a 'chock' of wood. Anyway, you know as well as i do that when meditating, your brain is relaxed yet also more focused than when you are in your normal daily frame of mind. Studies have shown how elite athletes can take advantage of this, because they are calm and alert too, so can move quickly and think clearly. This is why I doubt it was a hallucination.





well...sometimes its all a little mysterious to say the least.woody hell!

[lara123]

tinlizzy-i have a question for you.


when you get to woo woo land,apart from seeing whoever you want to see, if we can come and annoy people, will you?

[lara123]

For me to 'know' that the spirit plane was real would, a priori, mean that such a phenomenon had been proven in a tanglible, empirical context. At that point, I'd be as fascinated by it as I am by many other areas of human enquiry. It would, of course, be an utterly compelling field of enquiry and understanding.

Until that proof is forthcoming, however, ( 'personal proof' doesn't cut the mustard, for numerous reasons ) it can be no more 'real' to me than Bertrand Russell's celestial teapot, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

utterly compelling-i like that! we know the bits about proof and all that for you-thats ok,but remember,you suppossed to be a woo-woo for a little while like tin lizzy woo woo and me woo woo.ah go on-just for a day,

[Tin Lizzie]

Seriously Lara shame on you!

I would love to, but there could be some problems..

firstly, it would mean i would need to remain close to the physical plane, so that i can trip people up, throw stones at them and generally be a nuisance. This would however mean my spirit would be split between the two planes. And you know better than me what happens then.....

[lara123]

a woo--nderful day

[Tin Lizzie]

I woo-ldn't go to far with that.

[lara123]

oh eye chuck i do,my humaness now wants to be naughty but maybe you love and light and [[hugs]] only over there,still,giving invisable hugs would be nice..

[lara123]

woo-ould ya still need me -when im 64!

[Tin Lizzie]

Looking forward to my trip to London. I might visit WOO-lwich and Greenwich too.

then again i can't be arsed. The fair. whooo-oops the fare costs a bomb unless you book early. Apparently you can still gwet ripped off. Bit of an ny-wooo-sance.

[Tin Lizzie]

When your 64 years gone yeah, then I'd rifle yer pockets for sure, for sure heheh

[lara123]

ha ha,good one.i mean good woo-n.

[Tin Lizzie]

Ahh it's not question of WOO's to blame, otherwise it would be a bit of a DEAD LOSS

[lara123]

tin woowa ,that much better than tin lizzy,i can be lararararawoowoo,did you woo wat i also saw a woo woo doggie last week.

[Tin Lizzie]

y-WOO are loo-WOOsing it, you big l-WOOser. I feel like johnathan ross here...

[lara123]

Ahh it's not question of WOO's to blame, otherwise it would be a bit of a DEAD LOSS


woo wamming me ? woo woo hope you woo-uldnt wloody blame me!

wead-woss,woo wright there woo-woo, weavens above!!!

[SimonC]

utterly compelling-i like that! we know the bits about proof and all that for you-thats ok,but remember,you suppossed to be a woo-woo for a little while like tin lizzy woo woo and me woo woo.ah go on-just for a day,

Ok, I'll put a ( tin ) woo hat on for a little while. ;D

Y'know what, this may not be the answer that, perhaps, you might expect from a skeptic/atheist such as myself ( I think we're often seen as somewhat nihilistic, negative people ). I think that, beyond the obvious 'jamming with Jimi Hendrix' type of thing, proof of 'spirit' might take the edge off life a little.

From the perspective of a Skeptic, like my own bad self, this it it - this life is all we have, so it's probably best to cram as much as possible in while we have the chance. I actually find that ( lack of ) belief to be very life-affirming and positive.

As I said, in my previous post, it would be an amazing discovery, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't just take some of the 'fire' out of the life that we have. And, incidentally, the statisitical chance of any of us ever actually being conceived, and getting this life, was vanishingly small ( nothing annoys me more than a person who complains that they're 'bored' - life's short, so make the most of it ).

I realise that I'm in danger of straying into rather deep philosophical waters here, but those are my thoughts for now.

* Removes woo-hat. Wasn't terribly keen on the bobble, anyway * :smiley:

[lara123]

for real woo woo,same as spirit vision,finer,jonathon ross,i love him!

[lara123]

i really woof him!

[Tin Lizzie]

WOL! WOFL!! WMFAO!! OMW!!!

Ahhhh....nahhhh.....YOU'RE KILLIN' ME.......AAAAAAHAHAH....geddit, 'killin me'

[Tin Lizzie]

Ok, I'll put a ( tin ) woo hat on for a little while. ;D

Y'know what, this may not be the answer that, perhaps, you might expect from a skeptic/atheist such as myself ( I think we're often seen as somewhat nihilistic, negative people ). I think that, beyond the obvious 'jamming with Jimi Hendrix' type of thing, proof of 'spirit' might take the edge off life a little.

From the perspective of a Skeptic, like my own bad self, this it it - this life is all we have, so it's probably best to cram as much as possible in while we have the chance. I actually find that ( lack of ) belief to be very life-affirming and positive.

As I said, in my previous post, it would be an amazing discovery, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't just take some of the 'fire' out of the life that we have. And, incidentally, the statisitical chance of any of us ever actually being conceived, and getting this life, was vanishingly small ( nothing annoys me more than a person who complains that they're 'bored' - life's short, so make the most of it ).

I realise that I'm in danger of straying into rather deep philosophical waters here, but those are my thoughts for now.

* Removes woo-hat. Wasn't terribly keen on the bobble, anyway * :smiley:

Bravo on giving it a go!

so you WOO-ldn't fancy it then? Found it to be a bit of a DEAD LOSS, huh?

WOO knows, maybe one day if you ever find yourself in a DEAD end, you might remember your little sojourn into WOO-land.

One thing though, hang on to yer hat, it's a WOO-WAY journey!

and that's DEAD reckoning. Anyway you must be DYING to get away....WOO-WOO! bye-ee!!

[seren]

The world of woo seems to be entirely populated by bad puns.

[Tin Lizzie]

"I WOO-nder , I WOO-WOO-WOO-WOO WOO-nder...why, she ran away, she ran away..."

[Tin Lizzie]

The world of woo seems to be entirely populated by bad puns.

Those, and angry nuns. Not a pretty sight - thank lordy for reincarnation...WOO! WOO! BOOM! BOOM!

[lara123]

simon-just because i believe in an after-life does not mean right now is not as important.Its so impoertant to be happy and do things you enjoy-whatever your beliefs.And we live in the present-im far more in the present than woo woo land.

I dont think all sceptics are seen as negative,we're all people at the end of the day with so much to us.im not a serious person at all really,i know some sceptics,they havent had proof,and i guess i annoy them a bit talking about woo woo land but we all smile about it and dont take differing beliefs into anger.

life is for living and laughing,laugh with us but i like respect,mistakes have been made on here,by myself also,but lets lighten up sometimes.


woo-fully yours xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[lara123]

tin woo-woo

twas a while ago now that another woo woo and i woofully wooed along to the lovely woo-burn abbey.

[Tin Lizzie]

WOO-well i never good old WOO-burn abbey.

I remeber when I was WOO-ing my fiance and we spent some time there. Blimey the things WOO can do there....hope the nuns weren't watching that day...WOO blimey

[lara123]

tinny-rin woo,is woo tired now,all this woo-ing makes one sleepy.

dead sleepy.

[lara123]

WOO-well i never good old WOO-burn abbey.

I remeber when I was WOO-ing my fiance and we spent some time there. Blimey the things WOO can do there....hope the nuns weren't watching that day...WOO blimey

woo-ing eck.

i thinks you giving me a cock and bull story ere.

[Tin Lizzie]

Lara-WOO, you're dead right. WOO would be silly to go killing your eyes over this. If I were WOO i would lay it to rest.

See WOO on the other side.

[lara123]

yep,woo wright as usual, see you soon....w-oop well x

[SimonC]

...you might remember your little sojourn into WOO-land.



Been there already. Was highly into TOPY, know Alan Moore and Grant Morrison reasonably well and have had dinner with them/chatted to them many times, discussing all matters spiritual/magikal. Been through the whole Crowley/Thelema/Austin Osman Spare thing. Etc...

That quiet, reasonable, skeptical voice, however, kept asking questions that none of that the aforementioned had any answer for other than 'just believe'.

Sorry, but that's just not enough for me. Got proof? Great...I'm all ears. Got a cogent, internally-consistent model for 'spirit'? Fantastic...I can't wait to learn about it. If not, please get back to me when you have. :smiley:

Cheers,

S

[Zaira]

seren,

"There's a website out there somewhere of a guy who knows he is being persecuted by MI5. He knows that Jon Snow is laughing at him and giving him messages through the channel 4 news. He knows that MI5 are implanting thoughts into his brain. He doesn't believe it, he knows it. Try arguing with him that it's all in his head, he won't believe you, he just "knows" that it's all true because he's "experienced" it. Should we accept that it's true because he says he knows it is?"

That might just be the answer. He knows. Things are true for you that are not true for him and things are true for him that are not true for you. Could it be in the knowing? ;)

[Zaira]

Tim,

"Anyway, you know as well as i do that when meditating, your brain is relaxed yet also more focused than when you are in your normal daily frame of mind. Studies have shown how elite athletes can take advantage of this, because they are calm and alert too, so can move quickly and think clearly. This is why I doubt it was a hallucination."

I got just one little 'nit-pick'. It's not your brain that is relaxed. It's your mind that has been quietened. With relaxation and meditation we experience the quiet mind. :smiley:

[Zaira]

I have a question for the Skeptics.

Can you remember what it felt like to believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy? Explain for me how that felt.

:smiley:

[Zaira]

Tim,

"I had a couple of pretty scary moments where my windows would slam shut if I thought about my boss at work and how i wanted to wreck his car or infect his computer - he was screwing me for hours and cash. I had these thoughts & my guides would respond quite angrily, but one time in particular as I was meditating I felt a sudden movement in the air. I was compelled to open my eyes (this is the only time, I always keep them closed) and sure enough there was, briefly a blur of a very wiry shape, kind of humanoid. Is it possible that this was a 'bad' spirit? what happens to these?"

Did anything bad happen to your boss?

[Tin Lizzie]

Tim,


"Anyway, you know as well as i do that when meditating, your brain is relaxed yet also more focused than when you are in your normal daily frame of mind. Studies have shown how elite athletes can take advantage of this, because they are calm and alert too, so can move quickly and think clearly. This is why I doubt it was a hallucination."


I got just one little 'nit-pick'. It's not your brain that is relaxed. It's your mind that has been quietened. With relaxation and meditation we experience the quiet mind. :smiley:

Thanks Zaira,

that is also true, however I think the skeptics would understand the point more in terms of the brain. I remember when I studied sport psychology, we had a guy in (can't remember his name) who showed us how the 'brain waves' changed dramatically in the meditative state - not only is the mind relaxed, the brain is too. It was all very interesting to say the least!

[Tin Lizzie]

Tim,


"I had a couple of pretty scary moments where my windows would slam shut if I thought about my boss at work and how i wanted to wreck his car or infect his computer - he was screwing me for hours and cash. I had these thoughts & my guides would respond quite angrily, but one time in particular as I was meditating I felt a sudden movement in the air. I was compelled to open my eyes (this is the only time, I always keep them closed) and sure enough there was, briefly a blur of a very wiry shape, kind of humanoid. Is it possible that this was a 'bad' spirit? what happens to these?"


Did anything bad happen to your boss?

Believe me, I would love to find out!! I managed to look after myself though.

[Melanie]

I have a question for the Skeptics.


Can you remember what it felt like to believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy? Explain for me how that felt.


:smiley:

That's a very good question!

It felt exciting, magical, sent shivers down the spine, made one very alert and happy.

It occurs to me that it's Very similar to the feeling of falling in love. I don't mean 'love', I mean 'falling in love'. And we all know how irrational that is.

[Tin Lizzie]

It occurs to me that it's Very similar to the feeling of falling in love. I don't mean 'love', I mean 'falling in love'. And we all know how irrational that is.

....silliest thing I ever did. Still, irrational or not, it happened.

[brianp]

only accept whats true for you.and i accept whats true to me.

There is only one truth. You choose to weave a highly improbable fairy story around that truth, a fairy story not supported by any evidence whatsoever other than subjective 'feelings' and hearsay, both of which are inherently unreliable. We choose to interpret that truth as best we can - ie in the simplest way possible - according to the evidence, always accepting, of course, that this interpretation is subject to change as more evidence, real evidence that is, becomes available.

[Melanie]

....silliest thing I ever did. Still, irrational or not, it happened.

One only has to look at the divorce statistics to see how irrational it is to believe in it!

[Zaira]

Melanie,

"It felt exciting, magical, sent shivers down the spine, made one very alert and happy."

Yes it was a good question, and a good answer. Thank you. I never experienced any of that. My dad left us in no doubt who bought the stuff we got, and we always got it out on Christmas eve because they didn't like to get up early, and a few days later it was in the pawn shop. Sorry, it might be water under the bridge but I'm still wringing out my socks.

I did imagine that my experiences must be like believing in Santa - magical. But I had no frame of reference. I did what I could with what I had and I'm here today to tell the tale.

"It occurs to me that it's Very similar to the feeling of falling in love. I don't mean 'love', I mean 'falling in love'. And we all know how irrational that is."

I don't think falling in love has anything to do with rationality - it's hormones and pheromones. Love - now that's where I was very fortunate. It was almost like someone was trying to make up to me for my crappy childhood. I loved falling in love - there were only two of them, and I had the time of my life while trying to decide which one to marry. I finally chose one and the other one committed suicide!!

No. Seriously. Don't worry, I'm laughing too. :smiley: I could write a book. It was all a very long time ago. And it only proved to me that I had chosen the right guy. :smiley:

[lara123]

There is only one truth. You choose to weave a highly improbable fairy story around that truth, a fairy story not supported by any evidence whatsoever other than subjective 'feelings' and hearsay, both of which are inherently unreliable. We choose to interpret that truth as best we can - ie in the simplest way possible - according to the evidence, always accepting, of course, that this interpretation is subject to change as more evidence, real evidence that is, becomes available.


you telling me fairies are not real now..:'(

was so hoping to meet them in woo-woo land.

[Julia]

Oh. Dearie. Me. ::)

How many times do we have to say this?

A thing is either true or false. You can no more have your own personal truth than you can have your own personal facts. By all means have your own beliefs/opinions, but if they fly in the face of mountains of evidence don't behave like martyrs or misunderstood visionaries when other people recognise them for what they are - delusions. :cheesy:

[Zaira]

Would you call someone who believes in God and Jesus delusional?

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Would you call someone who believes in God and Jesus delusional?

Yes, because God and Jesus are a delusion.

Implying someone is delusional is not necessarily an insult, you need to remember that though.

Not everyone is a Dawkins fan, but I can recommend The God Delusion if you want an indepth analysis of why God is a delusion.

[Tin Lizzie]

Yes, because God and Jesus are a delusion.

Implying someone is delusional is not necessarily an insult, you need to remember that though.

Not everyone is a Dawkins fan, but I can recommend The God Delusion if you want an indepth analysis of why God is a delusion.

It would be great if you could back your words up with sound proof. Oh, hang on what's that predictable response I hear coming next.....

[Tin Lizzie]

One only has to look at the divorce statistics to see how irrational it is to believe in it!

I believe (no pun) that may have something to do with the other options available to people these days. Still, marriages do survive and people do stay in love for their whole lives. Can't be such a myth if it is actually possible?

[Tin Lizzie]

WOO-WOO, excuse me people but a lot of you are ignoring the theme of this thread. THIS IS WOO-WOO land, and whilst you're here you are a WOO. So, if you want to take your nasty-wasty 'I HATE WOOS AND ALL THINGS WOO-WOOish' then go to another thread.

Now, Zaira-woo. About those fairies...you see there was a great woo friend of mine who was very much into his woo-woo and he received certain guidance from fairies (his term, not mine) who helped him with his garden-woo. He wrote down their woo-woo as they gave it to him in meditation-woo, and the size of his vegetables was woo-nderful and really thought-provoking.

Now, it could have been possible that somehow he already knew this woo-woo knowledge, as it did involved the moon-woo-gardening-woo, but you should have seen the size of his veggie-woo!

[chillzero]

I loved falling in love - there were only two of them, and I had the time of my life while trying to decide which one to marry. I finally chose one and the other one committed suicide!!


No. Seriously. Don't worry, I'm laughing too. :smiley:
I'm sorry .... what? :-\

[chillzero]

It would be great if you could back your words up with sound proof. Oh, hang on what's that predictable response I hear coming next.....

Have you read the book he referenced?

[SimonC]

Please let me also add my recommendation of 'The God Delusion' - it really is superb.

I hope this link might also be worth posting;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8033327978006186584&q=dawkins+lynchburg&total=27&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

It's Dawkins reading excerpts from the book, with an excellent 'Q&A' session afterwards.

Cheers,

S

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

It would be great if you could back your words up with sound proof. Oh, hang on what's that predictable response I hear coming next.....

You really do have no comprehension of the nature of evidence and proof.

Why don't you go read a proper science book for once, rather than the sort of drivel that you think gives you evidence.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

WOO-WOO, excuse me people but a lot of you are ignoring the theme of this thread. THIS IS WOO-WOO land, and whilst you're here you are a WOO. So, if you want to take your nasty-wasty 'I HATE WOOS AND ALL THINGS WOO-WOOish' then go to another thread.

Now, Zaira-woo. About those fairies...you see there was a great woo friend of mine who was very much into his woo-woo and he received certain guidance from fairies (his term, not mine) who helped him with his garden-woo. He wrote down their woo-woo as they gave it to him in meditation-woo, and the size of his vegetables was woo-nderful and really thought-provoking.

Now, it could have been possible that somehow he already knew this woo-woo knowledge, as it did involved the moon-woo-gardening-woo, but you should have seen the size of his veggie-woo!

No, you thought it would be 'hilarious' to start a sarcastic thread with your pal and see how long it took anyone to rise to the bait.

[Tin Lizzie]

No, you thought it would be 'hilarious' to start a sarcastic thread with your pal and see how long it took anyone to rise to the bait.

No no, farside-woo. This is where us woos can escape from the misconceptions and mis-woo-perceptions that you have demonstrated-woo so-woo-clearly in that thread there. If you find this 'baiting' then you need to examine and back-track through your neuroligical processes and decide what made you come to this decision instead of taking the route that other more light-hearted skeptics have managed to. woo.

[seren]

That might just be the answer. He knows. Things are true for you that are not true for him and things are true for him that are not true for you. Could it be in the knowing?

My word....are you happy for him to live like that? Out of some morbid curiosity I check in on his site occasionally and the man is suffering. He has voices screaming abuse at him in his head all day every day. But he won't see they are delusions, products of his own mind. He keeps saying it's MI5. He's says he's frightened of them and wants medication to make them go away.

That's what it's REALLY like to hear voices, to "know" that it's true that something outside of you is speaking directly into your mind. Pretty horrible.

It is not true. It doesn't matter what he thinks he knows, MI5 are NOT implanting thoughts into his brain, because that is not possible. There is only one truth, what differs is how we choose to interpret it. There's nothing so wrong with that, but we should at least be self-aware enough to realise and admit that's what's happening, otherwise we are as insane as MI5 guy. Why Tin Lizzie can't seem to grasp this I don't know. Ok so you've experienced odd things- so have we all. I don't attribute it to spirits, which means it must be a "choice" to do so. If it's a "choice" to believe it's spirits, it can't be knowledge. Just opinion- just belief.

[Tin Lizzie]

My word....are you happy for him to live like that? Out of some morbid curiosity I check in on his site occasionally and the man is suffering. He has voices screaming abuse at him in his head all day every day. But he won't see they are delusions, products of his own mind. He keeps saying it's MI5. He's says he's frightened of them and wants medication to make them go away.

That's what it's REALLY like to hear voices, to "know" that it's true that something outside of you is speaking directly into your mind. Pretty horrible.

It is not true. It doesn't matter what he thinks he knows, MI5 are NOT implanting thoughts into his brain, because that is not possible. There is only one truth, what differs is how we choose to interpret it. There's nothing so wrong with that, but we should at least be self-aware enough to realise and admit that's what's happening, otherwise we are as insane as MI5 guy. Why Tin Lizzie can't seem to grasp this I don't know. Ok so you've experienced odd things- so have we all. I don't attribute it to spirits, which means it must be a "choice" to do so. If it's a "choice" to believe it's spirits, it can't be knowledge. Just opinion- just belief.

Okay seren-woo. Now I have have received distinct, clear messages from inexpicable sources. The first time was when I was 8, and there was no-one nearby apart from my mum, who didn't hear this voice. The message turned out to be most relevant to an event which unfolded less than an hour later; I was terrified for quite some time because I could not explain where this voice had come from.

Now, more recently I have recieved a message from the grave and I have received more voices and more guidance from spirit. I appreciate your lack of belief, and believe me belief is one of the first steps you need to take, but this dosn't mean you abandon thought and judgement, oh no-woo. The difference between believing and not believing comes through experience, but yo cannot get this - or, at least it is far more difficult- if you choose to deny and disbelieve. woo.

[Zaira]

FarSideOfTheMoon,

"Yes, because God and Jesus are a delusion.

Implying someone is delusional is not necessarily an insult, you need to remember that though.

Not everyone is a Dawkins fan, but I can recommend The God Delusion if you want an indepth analysis of why God is a delusion."

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

So Skeptics believe that all religious people are delusional? I'm not a religious person but I know a lot of very respectable people who are. So I consider myself in good company. Glad too to hear that it isn't necessarily an insult.

It's a nice word - Delusional. Don't you think? I have been called lots of things - delusional isn’t the worst of them.

No insult taken. :smiley:

[John Jackson]

A delusion is simply a false belief.

[Tin Lizzie]

Can knowledge be delusional?

[Zaira]

Tim,

"Still, marriages do survive and people do stay in love for their whole lives. Can't be such a myth if it is actually possible?"

I carry hope and I would like to share it. The marriage might not be intact but….. Struggled to bring up three kids, been to hell and back twice (he was a soldier stationed in Ireland, shot in 76 and almost blown up in 79), twenty years in, had nothing left to give each other, agreed to divorce, all very amicable, he still comes around to do the Santa bit for the kids and the grandkids, he bought me this computer, he's been married and divorced and engaged twice since our divorce.

I love him and I always will. He is my guardian angel. I didn’t have love in me, I couldn’t find love - Love found me. And it never left. ;)

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

FarSideOfTheMoon,


"Yes, because God and Jesus are a delusion.


Implying someone is delusional is not necessarily an insult, you need to remember that though.


Not everyone is a Dawkins fan, but I can recommend The God Delusion if you want an indepth analysis of why God is a delusion."


Thanks for taking the time to reply.


So Skeptics believe that all religious people are delusional? I'm not a religious person but I know a lot of very respectable people who are. So I consider myself in good company. Glad too to hear that it isn't necessarily an insult.


It's a nice word - Delusional. Don't you think? I have been called lots of things - delusional isn’t the worst of them.


No insult taken. :smiley:

Not all skeptics are atheists though, some are theists, and some are agnostics like the rest of the population.

You would probably find most atheists agreeing it is a delusion however.

As to why it is a delusion - people like Dawkins can articulate it a million times better than I ever could. Everyone who believes in a monotheistic God should be forced to read The God Delusion before starting to debate with atheists. I was forced to read the Bible as a youngster so it's only fair ;D, plus it makes a hell of a lot more sense than the bible.

And I reiterate again - calling someone delusional is not always an insult O0

[lara123]

hi lizzy woowoo[hi zaira too] delusional,lovely word that lizzy woowoo

[lara123]

i prefer de-woo-sional myself

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Can knowledge be delusional?

You can certainly have delusions about what knowledge is based on reality.

Knowledge is too woolly a word to mean anything though.

Dictionary.com gives 11 different interpretations as to what it means.

1.acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things. 2.familiarity or conversance, as with a particular subject or branch of learning: A knowledge of accounting was necessary for the job. 3.acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature. 4.the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear and certain mental apprehension. 5.awareness, as of a fact or circumstance: He had knowledge of her good fortune. 6.something that is or may be known; information: He sought knowledge of her activities. 7.the body of truths or facts accumulated in the course of time. 8.the sum of what is known: Knowledge of the true situation is limited. 9.Archaic. sexual intercourse. Compare carnal knowledge (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=carnal knowledge). –adjective 10.creating, involving, using, or disseminating special knowledge or information: A computer expert can always find a good job in the knowledge industry. —Idiom 11.to one's knowledge, according to the information available to one: To my knowledge he hasn't been here before.

My preference would be number 1. However I suspect your interpretation of knowledge might be closer to 3.

[Tin Lizzie]

wooo-ooo-oops well us wooos have our own glossary of course; you'll find our definition of consciuosness, for example, to be wrapped up in a nice woo-ly coating of its own.

woo.

[Tin Lizzie]

I think farside-woo is suffering from an i-woosion. he is seeing baits where there are none

[lara123]

kmowledge is too woo-lly a word he states,you see,a bit of woo is there in him after all.

[Tin Lizzie]

lara-lara-woo, you are 'dead' right. i have....'grave' concerns over his lack of woo-liness so far, but he is showing some po-woo-tential.

[lara123]

i-woosions and de-woosions lizzy woo,we should make our own dictionary.

[Tin Lizzie]

Tim,


"Still, marriages do survive and people do stay in love for their whole lives. Can't be such a myth if it is actually possible?"


I carry hope and I would like to share it. The marriage might not be intact but….. Struggled to bring up three kids, been to hell and back twice (he was a soldier stationed in Ireland, shot in 76 and almost blown up in 79), twenty years in, had nothing left to give each other, agreed to divorce, all very amicable, he still comes around to do the Santa bit for the kids and the grandkids, he bought me this computer, he's been married and divorced and engaged twice since our divorce.


I love him and I always will. He is my guardian angel. I didn’t have love in me, I couldn’t find love - Love found me. And it never left. ;)

Love never dies Zaira....that's what I believe anyway.

[Tin Lizzie]

i-woosions and de-woosions lizzy woo,we should make our own dictionary.

woo-we could call it.....'Woo.'

[lara123]

certainly is! i could be falling in luv with him now-whoops!

[Tin Lizzie]

Aww woo-lly-woo! could be a woo-woo made in woo-woo land, bless!

[lara123]

wright! lets wooove on now,im interested to know your thoughts on auras,have you ever seen one,or your own.

[Tin Lizzie]

au-woo-waas....hmm

some years ago I was training in sports massage. One day we were doing a session on relaxation & observation. I spent 15 mins lying down and 'switchng off' without going to sleep. The girls observing me had the most astonished expressions afterwards-they described an aura that had gradually spread over my whole body as I lay.

I personally have only seen an aura once - I spotted a woman walking towards me some distance away and i noticed a very misty blurring shape surrounding the side of her face and sticking out from it, it was most odd and then as she came closer i could not see this aura anymore, just a huge scar on her face.

Hows about you-woo laralarawoo?

[lara123]

too many times to mention,i can see one when i like,not actually to difficult to see your own-go try it and let me know-read auras-how to see them on gordons site.

I taught an 90 yr old man to do it-he was delighted!

[Tin Lizzie]

Oh ok

[lara123]

when i get to woo-woo land,after all my hugs,i'll have woo-ster sauce sarnies followed by woost parnips,yum yum.

[Tin Lizzie]

i was wondering, whats the difference between a woo-ster and a chicken? ive never eaten a wooster

[lara123]

then i'll go find a good medi-woom

[Zaira]

chillzero,

"I'm sorry .... what?"

I don't mean at the time of course. I just meant with everything else I have posted about, that was just one more 'tragedy' to add to the list. While posting I suddenly realise how ludicrous it all sounded and it made me laugh out loud and I thought no one would believe the half of it.

That's all.

[Zaira]

Tim,

"Now, it could have been possible that somehow he already knew this woo-woo knowledge, as it did involved the moon-woo-gardening-woo, but you should have seen the size of his veggie-woo!"

See, I understand that. That comes under my positive thinking and visualisation. It's the same as the talking to plants theory - it's suppose to make them grow more.

[Zaira]

What do our Skeptics say about the talking to plants theory - it's suppose to make them grow more.

[Tin Lizzie]

Could they also give us the benefit of their knowledge on the principles of said moon-gardening?

[John Jackson]

What do our Skeptics say about the talking to plants theory - it's suppose to make them grow more.

What do you say about this theory?

If you believe it then why do you believe it?

[John Jackson]

Could they also give us the benefit of their knowledge on the principles of said moon-gardening?

Well I haven't read it but if you're postulating an idea how about spelling out what you think about it before anyone looks at it?

[chillzero]

chillzero,


"I'm sorry .... what?"


I don't mean at the time of course. I just meant with everything else I have posted about, that was just one more 'tragedy' to add to the list. While posting I suddenly realise how ludicrous it all sounded and it made me laugh out loud and I thought no one would believe the half of it.


That's all.

I don't know that I could ever laugh at someone's suicide.

[Zaira]

"I don't know that I could ever laugh at someone's suicide."

I wasn't laughing at the suicide I was laughing at my post.

[Tin Lizzie]

Well I haven't read it but if you're postulating an idea how about spelling out what you think about it before anyone looks at it?

Okay, check this out for starters (btw i don't own shares with these people, it's just that their site is quite clear and informative)

www.lunarorganics.com (http://www.lunarorganics.com)

I have a feeling that despite the results people achieve using the methods depicted, the skeptical community will not accept its effectiveness until it can be scientifically validated.

[Cuddles]

I have a feeling that despite the results people achieve using the methods depicted, the skeptical community will not accept its effectiveness until it can be scientifically validated.

So what you're saying is that the skeptical community won't accept the results until they can prove that the results actually exist. The only thing I can't understand is why you keep insisting this is a bad thing.

[Tin Lizzie]

So what you're saying is that the skeptical community won't accept the results until they can prove that the results actually exist. The only thing I can't understand is why you keep insisting this is a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing for me.

[Tin Lizzie]

Woo.

[lara123]

woo to you too

[Tin Lizzie]

Woo-hoo! I can see you-woo laralarawoo-woo.

Have you any new juicy-woocy woo to share with me?

[lara123]

someone said on here we shouldnt be called woos,what do you think

[Tin Lizzie]

woo said that? I think it's okay on this thread really, don't ywoo?

[lara123]

hmmm,juicy-woo-sy news..yes....read above

[lara123]

no-not this one,somewhere,they were very kind,i see their point but it could been worse,giving us fun anyhow

[Tin Lizzie]

can't be woo-arsed trawling. Can you copy the web addy on the thread page-woo please? And paste it here-woo?

[Tin Lizzie]

Hey Lara-Woo

If woo made our own cigarettes what would we call them?

[lara123]

should be getting some nic-woo-ettes

[Tin Lizzie]

or woo-bines

[lara123]

like it woo woo! anyway woo woo im leaving this site tonight

[Tin Lizzie]

cant say i blame ywoo.

see you on the woo forum

[lara123]

yes,picking up my broom now and flying home------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------woo woo boom boom x

[bindeweede]

The last 13 posts are so....................illuminating,..........and loving:cheesy:
L&L

[Julia]

You can say that again. I'm positively overflowing with enlightenment. :cheesy: