Orgonite

[bindeweede]

I am not clever enough to understand this..................

“Organic substances attract Bio energy and soak it up like a sponge, while metallic substances tend to repel it. Basically, orgonite pulls in the Bio energy, and while the energy is inside the device, the metal particles and organic resin both push and pull on it in all directions at the same time. This puts friction on the energy. The friction is great enough at many small points within the matrix to cause the energy to shift upwards in spectrum to Ether, so that it temporarily ceases to exist as a part of the electromagnetic spectrum. When the energy comes back out of the device, it collapses back into an organized, defined state and comes into existence as bio energy / magnetism.”

The quote comes from here......

http://tribes.tribe.net/orgonite

[Matt]

I am not stupid enough to understand this..................


Fixed it for you

[Tin Lizzie]

Funny - Orgonite does have very beneficial effects (well it works on plants, that's for certain).

[Cuddles]

Oh dear, orgone energy, deadly TVs, chemtrails, is there anything this guy doesn't believe?

[Melanie]

Good old Wiki - here's their take on All About Wilhelm Reich, purveyor of Orgone Accumulators - boxes wherein patients could sit to absorb the orgone energy accumulated within.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich

He died in prison.

PS I predict this thread will run and run...

[Tin Lizzie]

Oh dear, orgone energy, deadly TVs, chemtrails, is there anything this guy doesn't believe?

I can't recall ever declaring my belief in deadly TVs and chemtrails....not hallucinating now are we ;)

[Tin Lizzie]

Good old Wiki - here's their take on All About Wilhelm Reich, purveyor of Orgone Accumulators - boxes wherein patients could sit to absorb the orgone energy accumulated within.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich

He died in prison.

PS I predict this thread will run and run...

Thanks for that link. You're probably right about this thread running and running.

Oh, I also dabble in lunar gardening :smiley:

[bindeweede]

Fixed it for you
Nice one. My copy of Carl Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" arrived this morning, together with the 30th anniversary edition of Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" and his "Blind Watchmaker".

Might keep me out of mischief for a while:smiley:

(NB books bought through UK Skeptics link to Amazon.)

[Melanie]

(NB books bought through UK Skeptics link to Amazon.)


Thanks for the plug! (Bookstore Editor)

[Cuddles]

I can't recall ever declaring my belief in deadly TVs and chemtrails....not hallucinating now are we ;)

You do realise that not everything is about you? Don't you think it might just be possible that I was commenting on the actual subject of the thread? Not having delusions of grandeur now are we;)?

[Tin Lizzie]

You do realise that not everything is about you? Don't you think it might just be possible that I was commenting on the actual subject of the thread? Not having delusions of grandeur now are we;)?

Nope, just used to being sniped at and responding in kind ;)

[Admin]

http://skepdic.com/orgone.html


Just another one of those things people believe in that isn't true.

[bindeweede]

http://skepdic.com/orgone.html


Just another one of those things people believe in that isn't true.



There just seems to be such an enormous amount of it around. And so many people who seem to believe it. I think you can tell by the way so many scientific terms are thrown around in a way which makes you think they don't know what they are talking about.

[Tin Lizzie]

There just seems to be such an enormous amount of it around. And so many people who seem to believe it. I think you can tell by the way so many scientific terms are thrown around in a way which makes you think they don't know what they are talking about.

What really matters, surely, is that it can work?

[bindeweede]

What really matters, surely, is that it can work?

We'll only end up in the "science hasn't proved that it doesn't work, so surely it can" argument. Which has been explained to you many times elsewhere on this forum.

[Tin Lizzie]

We'll only end up in the "science hasn't proved that it doesn't work, so surely it can" argument. Which has been explained to you many times elsewhere on this forum.

No worries. My point is actually similar to that other one, in that it has been seen to work, so no need for science. I appreciate skeptics need proof, so i'll fish around for some after i've had my dinner :smiley:

[Mongrel]

No worries. My point is actually similar to that other one, in that it has been seen to work, so no need for science. I appreciate skeptics need proof, so i'll fish around for some after i've had my dinner :smiley:

That's what makes science great, your strawman aside. It isn't willing to just say "yeah, it works, let's grab a beer" (although I'm not sure about the beer thing ;)).

Science is the annoying kid going "Why?", "How?" all the time.

[Tin Lizzie]

Science is the annoying kid going "Why?", "How?" all the time.

Lordy! i'm going to remember that one for my first year classes! You've just made explaining the nature of science so much easier.

Cheers :smiley:

[Araneus]

It isn't willing to just say "yeah, it works, let's grab a beer" (although I'm not sure about the beer thing ;)).

Or in many cases: "yeah, I've been told it works by somebody else, let's grab a beer".

[Tin Lizzie]

Or in many cases: "yeah, I've been told it works by somebody else, let's grab a beer".

Unlike those of us who, upon seeing that something works, say "right, that works. Let's go for a beer", whilst the skeptic says "oooh no but we can't be 100% certain, let me just make sure", thus wasting valuable beer time and arriving at the pub just in time to buy the last round.

[Mongrel]

Because (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Galvani)we never (http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow.html)find (http://www.psnc.org.uk/index.php?type=more_news&id=2491)anything (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cern)new (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie)by (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin)asking (http://library.thinkquest.org/C005626/Quasars.htm)questions (http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/home.shtml) ::)

[bindeweede]

Unlike those of us who, upon seeing that something works, say "right, that works. Let's go for a beer", whilst the skeptic says "oooh no but we can't be 100% certain, let me just make sure", thus wasting valuable beer time and arriving at the pub just in time to buy the last round.

What evidence do you have that whatever you think works, actually works?

Let me predict your answer... "It works because I have seen it work".
Not evidence.

[Tin Lizzie]

What evidence do you have that whatever you think works, actually works?

Let me predict your answer... "It works because I have seen it work".
Not evidence.

i know that!

[Tin Lizzie]

Hang on...getting there slowly!

In fact, in the DOR generator, orgonite® is the major contributing factor to actually generate massive amounts of DOR. It acts just like the orgone accumulator with 20 layers that Reich used in his experimentation, the Oranur Experiment, with a lot more effect! Naturally, in the DOR generator, Orgonite® is more effective and much smaller quantities are needed to generate DOR.
With the pulsating orgone generator® close to it, the DOR that emanated from the DOR generator itself began to pulsate again: it lost its stale characteristics and therefore it was immediately transformed into healthy orgone energy. Consequently, the feeling of the atmosphere surrounding the device immediately changed from depressive-sickening to uplifting-energizing. Reich was obviously correct when describing DOR as an orgone energy that has become stale and rigid. His accumulators, of course, became part of the problem rather than part of the solution. It took the invention of the orgone generator® by Karl Hans Welz to have an effective mean against DOR. A blob of orgonite in a pendant or an other static orgonite device are nothing more than orgone accumulators, not generators as their marketers claim.
We experienced similar effects when orgone generators® of the JU 99 CE type were brought into places that had heavy DOR present such as in rooms with lots of fluorescent tubes and/or computer monitors. The atmosphere became agreeable almost immediately.

[bindeweede]

Hang on...getting there slowly!

In fact, in the DOR generator, orgonite® is the major contributing factor to actually generate massive amounts of DOR. It acts just like the orgone accumulator with 20 layers that Reich used in his experimentation, the Oranur Experiment, with a lot more effect! Naturally, in the DOR generator, Orgonite® is more effective and much smaller quantities are needed to generate DOR.
With the pulsating orgone generator® close to it, the DOR that emanated from the DOR generator itself began to pulsate again: it lost its stale characteristics and therefore it was immediately transformed into healthy orgone energy. Consequently, the feeling of the atmosphere surrounding the device immediately changed from depressive-sickening to uplifting-energizing. Reich was obviously correct when describing DOR as an orgone energy that has become stale and rigid. His accumulators, of course, became part of the problem rather than part of the solution. It took the invention of the orgone generator® by Karl Hans Welz to have an effective mean against DOR. A blob of orgonite in a pendant or an other static orgonite device are nothing more than orgone accumulators, not generators as their marketers claim.
We experienced similar effects when orgone generators® of the JU 99 CE type were brought into places that had heavy DOR present such as in rooms with lots of fluorescent tubes and/or computer monitors. The atmosphere became agreeable almost immediately.

TinL

Staggering.

[Tin Lizzie]

hmm....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0962185582

er.......

[Tin Lizzie]

Okay before i get a load of stick...

I'm trying to solve the evidence problem backwards. Naturally, skeptics will find some of this amusing to say the least, but this link gives indications as to the mechanism by which orgonite works:

http://www.orgone.net/theory.html

Mainly this bit:


Of life force we know that (1) it flows freely without significant loss of energy between identical structures, and (2) it follows the principle of negative entropy, i.e., from the weaker potential to the stronger one until the stronger potential is saturated.
The second characteristic of life force allows us to establish linkage where the connection is not exactly identical, to the point of being pure abstractions (such as radionics settings, or "rates", esoteric symbols, signatures of "spirits", mantras, and objects of power) that were established with the human brain focusing on trend or target. Following the law of negative entropy, life force automatically searches out the final target for which such an “abstraction” has been established originally with help of the human brain. This process is similar to heat traveling the “path of least resistance” (“preferring,” so to say, heat conducting materials) when following the law of entropy from higher potential to lower potential until a balance (near-equal potential) between the two is reached. The function of the "magical" object. "psychic link" or the settings of the radionics device, then, can be compared to ducts in a heating system.



The link to the book in the post above may/may not contain a serious study, up to you if you want to really find out.

Othewise, i've managed to aquire orgonite very easily and very cheaply, so the opportunity is there for those who want to set up a thorough test for themselves - might cost you a few bob, but if everyone chips in

.....in the name of science :smiley:

meantime, i'll pop back in the future if you want my own little anecdote

only joking :smiley:

[Cuddles]

The first problem was here:


Of life force


There is no such thing. The rest of the "explanation" is therefore utter nonsense.

[Tin Lizzie]

The first problem was here:

There is no such thing. The rest of the "explanation" is therefore utter nonsense.

You are saying therefore that there is no such thing as 'chi' from eastern philosophy and that 'tai chi' is nonsense. There is some astounding evidence that tai chi has quite incredible effects on creating a healthy body resistant to disease, and most interestingly it has had drastic (positive of course) effects on cancer sufferers.

The reason why this evidence wasn't acted upon in the west, despite the fact that the study was carried out by a US doctor and involved 100,000 subjects, needs no explanation here. Sadly, the closed minds of western medicine may have just missed an opportunity to greatly improve peoples' quality of life.

Hang on.... 'where's the evidence'.....i studied that one at uni, as part of a piece on the relationship between exercise & cancer. I'll get you the link this afternoon

:smiley:

[Matt]

You are saying therefore that there is no such thing as 'chi' from eastern philosophy and that 'tai chi' is nonsense. There is some astounding evidence that tai chi has quite incredible effects on creating a healthy body resistant to disease, and most interestingly it has had drastic (positive of course) effects on cancer sufferers.

Of course as a concept Chi exists. Some Karate instuctor describe Chi as litle more than your centre of gravity or a percussive centre. For others the concept means life force. The question is whether the concept of life force is meaningful . Certainly it is a concept in use in the teaching of martial arts and certainly martial arts are a useful form of exercise that promotes a healthy body resistant to disease but are the two related in any sensible way. Is Tai Chi any more effective than step aerobics. Is attributing the sucess of Tai Chi in producing healthy bodies to a knowledge of intangiable life force any more sensible than attributing the success of aerobics to the lifegiving properites of the ABBA music to which the exercise might be performed.


The reason why this evidence wasn't acted upon in the west, despite the fact that the study was carried out by a US doctor and involved 100,000 subjects, needs no explanation here. Sadly, the closed minds of western medicine may have just missed an opportunity to greatly improve peoples' quality of life.

Hang on.... 'where's the evidence'.....i studied that one at uni, as part of a piece on the relationship between exercise & cancer. I'll get you the link this afternoon

:smiley:

I'd be interested in this study if you read it again and cannot find an alternative interpretation that doesn't acknowledge the existance of life force as anything other then an ill defined concept.

[Cuddles]

You are saying therefore that there is no such thing as 'chi' from eastern philosophy and that 'tai chi' is nonsense.

Yes. If you think otherwise, fell free to show some evidence.


the relationship between exercise & cancer. I'll get you the link this afternoon

And what exactly does exercise have to do with anything? No-one will argue that Tai Chi and various other spiritual nonsense can be beneficial, but the fact they are does not mean it is the spiritual part that does anything. Exercise is good. We know this. No spirits needed.

[Tin Lizzie]

Matt

Bearing in mind that tai chi is slightly different in nature to, say, gentle aerobics, there are some quite conclusive studies out there. I can't find the one I mentioned earlier as yet (was back in 1996/97) and as i mentioned the doctor involved recorded her difficulty in getting that particular study acknowledged at the time, but here is a good place to start http://nccam.nih.gov/health/taichi/#10

There are similar studies involving aerobics, but who's to say that chi doesn't play a role in these also? :smiley:

It is indeed an ill-defined concept, which is why I have posted the more scientifically-oriented quote in my previous post.

[Tin Lizzie]

Yes. If you think otherwise, fell free to show some evidence.

Patience. Like I said, i will dig some out.

And what exactly does exercise have to do with anything?

Maybe you should ask people who exercise. You'll probably get some useful answers to your question O0

In the context of this discussion it is relevant in that orgonite uses life force (chi - see the link & quotes i provided earlier if you missed this bit) and that you have ridiculed the existence of chi without having any apparent understanding of the ideas behind it.

No-one will argue that Tai Chi and various other spiritual nonsense can be beneficial, but the fact they are does not mean it is the spiritual part that does anything. Exercise is good. We know this. No spirits needed.

Nonsense is your opinion, and your opinion is nonsense. Exercise is good, but tai chi is more like 'moving meditation' and is not in the slightest strenuous at all.

:smiley:

[Matt]

Matt

Bearing in mind that tai chi is slightly different in nature to, say, gentle aerobics, there are some quite conclusive studies out there. I can't find the one I mentioned earlier as yet (was back in 1996/97) and as i mentioned the doctor involved recorded her difficulty in getting that particular study acknowledged at the time, but here is a good place to start http://nccam.nih.gov/health/taichi/#10


Rather than providing conclusive evidence for the existence of chi this link on the contrary states


Since little is known scientifically about tai chi, accepting its teachings is a matter of belief or faith rather than evidence-based science.

I await details of the other study. In the meatime I've checked some of the references and can still find no study that even attempts to define/demonstrate/detect the existance of chi.


There are similar studies involving aerobics, but who's to say that chi doesn't play a role in these also? :smiley:

Who's to say it's not pixies. You've been here long enough to know where the burden of proof lies.


It is indeed an ill-defined concept, which is why I have posted the more scientifically-oriented quote in my previous post.

Sorry which quote was that?

[Tin Lizzie]

[/color]


Rather than providing conclusive evidence for the existence of chi this link on the contrary states



I await details of the other study. In the meatime I've checked some of the references and can still find no study that even attempts to define/demonstrate/detect the existance of chi.



Who's to say it's not pixies. You've been here long enough to know where the burden of proof lies.



Sorry which quote was that?

Personally, i go for gnomes. They explain everything. :cheesy:

[MRT]

Orgone! It's amazing how these things never quite go away, whatever the evidence - like crop circles. As long as there are a few true believers to carry the torch, they just go on and on, with big revivals from time to time. I thought EVP had completely gone until it reappeared a few years ago. I bet there are still believers in Mithras out there somewhere.

[brianp]

I bet there are still believers in Mithras out there somewhere.

Not a believer but I always celebrate his birthday with a slap-up meal, and even the queen gets in on the act by choosing that day for her annual broadcast to her subjects. Pity that some pope decided to steel his thunder by pretending that their mythical founder had the same birthday.