Did You Used To Be Religious?

[tkingdoll]

I had a conversation in Skeptics in the Pub last night during which a couple of us mentioned that we used to be Christians. I said that it's pretty common amongst skeptics, so I thought I'd start a formal thread for anyone who wants to put their hand up and say "I used to be a bleever but I'm alright now!".

So, starting with me, I was born Jewish (and am still Jewish, there's no renouncing that particular birthright), my entire family became born-again Christians when I was about 9 or 10. It was a branch of The Church of Christ. Very happy-clappy-tambouriney.

I was exorcised (yes, really) by the minister and two elders when I was 12 because I was suffering from behavioral problems due to losing a parent. They, of course, said I was possessed by demons. Nice, huh? At that point, I began to doubt.

We moved to Birmingham when I was 15 and, away from the influence of the church, I fairly quickly became agnostic, then atheist, which is where I'm at now and very happy with it thankyouverymuch.

So, that's me! What about you?

[Mojo]

I had a conversation in Skeptics in the Pub last night during which a couple of us mentioned that we used to be Christians. I said that it's pretty common amongst skeptics, so I thought I'd start a formal thread for anyone who wants to put their hand up and say "I used to be a bleever but I'm alright now!". It depends on what you mean by "Christian". In the UK a large proportion of the population is "Christian" by default, even if most of them seem to be non-practicing. It would be interesting to see how many skeptics used to be, as it were, "hard core believers", and how this relates to the population as a whole. What proportion go through some sort of "believer" phase at some point while growing up?

Me? Sort of C of E, but mostly as a result of music. I sang in a church choir as a kid (about the only outlet for music in rural Northumberland in the early 70s), and was pulled into it as a result of that, then decided during the course of my teens that it was nonsense.

[Admin]

I'm afraid that I was always destined to be a skeptic as I've never really embraced any sort of faith-based belief. ???

I come from a (non-practising) catholic family so I went to a catholic school when I was young. I remember being taught about my 'guardian angel'. On the way home I was thinking about it (I was around 6) and I wondered why there was a lollipop lady to see us over the road.

I thought that if I had this guardian angel was looking after me then I should be able to just walk across the road and no harm would come to me.

Then I realised that this would not happen, so I doubted the fact that this angel existed.

I know 'conversion' stories can be great but I've been a skeptic all the way along. ;D

[Zendal Darkman]

I’m afraid to say that I became a born again Christian at university, it lasted about two years before I had the horrid realisation that I didn't actually believe it, and probably never did. I look back at the time with extreme embarrassment.

The experience should be a lesson to me when speaking to others who have managed to delude themselves.

[vbloke]

I was born into a rather agnostic family. There was a vague christianity, but nothing was ever promoted.

I just never fell into a believer camp from an early age.

It was at university that my girlfriend became a born again christian and started trying to convert me. If someone tries to force something on me, I can get very stubborn. I resisted and started to point out the errors in the bible.

She didn't remain my girlfriend for very long after that.

I just never "got" the whole "big guy in the sky" idea - I was interested in astronomy from an early age and saw things through a telescope that never appeared in religious texts.

I figured out on my own that god, being all knowing and omniscient, might have mentioned stuff like nebulae and other galaxies in the bible. Since it wasn't there (and let's face it, apart from a lot of homilies, there's not a lot else in there), I reasoned that the people who wrote it just didn't know about stuff like that, so they couldn't write about it.

That led me to believe that the basic premise behind every religion (since they're all related) was based on folk tales and superstition.

Finally, after a few years in the "I really don't care" camp, I came across someone who would tried to convert me every chance he got. I fought back, learnt a lot about religious texts to confound him with his own logic and became atheist (officially).

[Nettles]

I'm a Jewish traditional rationalist daughter of Orthodox Jewish rationalists ... with an astonishingly vast religious education, a kosher kitchen and shabbat candles over on the dining room dresser.

[Mongrel]

I was brought up (dragged to church and Sunday School) a Methodist, when we moved from that area we changed to a United Reform Church. At the time I couldn't tell the difference and still couldn't tell you today. Early teens I was a Boys Brigade member which required a monthly parade to the church, flags flying, but even then it was more of a social event for me.

When I was about 13 or so and was a voracious reader I sat down with my Christening Bible and, over the course of a few weeks, read it cover to cover. My first thought skeptical thought was "God's a nutter". Plagues, killing tribes and sterilising the earth from the Old Testament Vs. Love thy neighbour, good samaritan and The meek shall inherit the Earth in the New Testament. At that point I shifted to Agnostic and the smug "If you can prove to me god exists then I'll happily believe in him", helped a little by THHGTTG (Babel fish, faith etc..) and was happy.

At some point that I can't define, after I left school and actually became interested in learning things, I shifted to the Aethist stance and started declaring "There are no gods, there is no proof anything you try to bring as proof had better be damned good". Whilst it has led to some family arguments "Yes, I was baptised. I refute that as I didn't have any say in the matter", I generally don't have too many problems day to day. For example, in a couple of weeks time I'm going to attend a Sunday morning servivce to dedicate my neighbours one year old kid - I'm going because I get on well with them, I babysit their kids and I know it makes them happy. I'm happy to respect peoples religious choice, even turn up if they want me there for an important occassion, I'm even happier if they grab a couple of beers and want to get theological about it (they may be just me ;)).

I think I'm lucky in the most part that all of the people I know who are religious aren't preachy about it.

[Muse]

I was lucky enough never to be burdoned with any form of religious education from my family as a child although it was thrust at me along with everyone else at school.

My dad was an atheist and out and out skeptic - believe me he would have loved this place. I used to talk to him for hours as a child asking about all sorts of stuff - he always gave me a straight and honest answers for which I'm forever grateful. Needless to say God or Santa for that matter didn't reign too long in our house once I became curious. But he did teach me never to take things at face value which has always stood me in good stead.

So much so that before he died he left clear instructions for his funeral . He forbade any clergy to be present or to speak for him and wanted a simple ceremony at the crematorium with only a selection of favourite music to see him off. He also forbade huge gushy pricey flower arrangements and wanted contributions to the British Heart Foundation instead.

:)

[Jocky]

I wasn't so much personally religious as surrounded by religion.

I was brought up in a manse, the son of a Minister of the Church of Scotland. However, Dad never made any effort to force his beliefs on me - he left me to come up with my own ideas. As a result my departure from organised religion (dating to my time as an undergraduate) has not messed up our relationship at all. I think he feels that it's more important that I came out as as a moral and functional adult than that I share a particular belief set with him. And quite right too!

The life of the Kirk was a daily part of life throughout my childhood. I have to say that I virtually never came across evangelical nutcases spouting hellfire and creationism during all that time, although I realise in retrospect that I did encounter plenty of casual bigotry (mostly racist and homophobic, with a bit of anti-Catholicism thrown in for good measure) which people associated with their religion.

When I did meet the lunatic fringe of Christianity as a teeneager, it changed my entire perspective on religion. I had assumed that my parents' laissez-faire approach to other points of view was the norm for Christians, and it came as a real shock to me that people could take the thing to such ludicrous extremes.

However, I remain scarred by my upbringing in this respect. To this day, I hesitate to describe myself as an atheist.

This is partly because the existence of a God in the abstract seems to be innately undisprovable (although the existence of a God who actively meddles with physical reality is a claim which would require exceptional proof, and I have never seen anything to convince me that such proof exists or will ever exist).

However it is also partly because I feel like actively taking up such a position would be an act of disrespect to my parents. And is it not written that thou shalt honour thy father and mother?

:-\ :-\

[Admin]

To this day, I hesitate to describe myself as an atheist.

This is partly because the existence of a God in the abstract seems to be innately undisprovable

I can understand that.

I used to be quite adamant that I was an out and out atheist and that God did not exist. Ironically (to some) it was becoming a Skeptic that made me realise that this is not really a tenable position to hold. ???

I can't disprove the existence of God so I can't claim that he doesn't exist. The way I describe myself these days is as an agnostic: in the sense that there is no way that we can possibly know either way.

So do I accept that God may exist?

Well there's no way we can possibly know. ;)

Any claim that is not falsifiable or testable in any way, shape or form is meaningless. So any hypothesising over the possibility that God may exist is absolutely pointless.

[tkingdoll]

Any claim that is not falsifiable or testable in any way, shape or form is meaningless. So any hypothesising over the possibility that God may exist is absolutely pointless.

That's exactly right, which is why I call myself an atheist. Whilst I accept that it's not true blue skeptical of me, however, I have to draw a line somewhere. For me, any claim that could be possible is worth investigating, and I only have limited time and resources. Therefore, I draw a mental line at claims that are just plain stupid - for example, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Goblins, God. That way I don't have to waste my time entertaining the possibility that they exist.

It's interesting that religion is the only area of skepticism in which there are sub-categories. You don't get to call yourself one thing if you believe psychics may be real but there no evidence, and another if you just flatly state that there is no such thing. Perhaps we should invent some terms...

[Dr B]

Afraid to say - i have always been a sceptic regarding religion - i simply cannot be doing with it. I remember I got chucked out of primary school assembly for asking the vicar questions on this Jesus chap (I was about 6 years old) - it did not go down well, and that reluctance to engage in debate from religion is the same today.

I remember having so many questions - but being told i simply have to believe and not question did not ring true with me as a child (even if i did not really understand why at that time).

I am open minded to the possibilities this world has to offer. Who knows, one day we may find ghosts are real - but we should always question and always move forward (not backward) ;D

[Hazen]

I had a catholic upbringing but it never took hold.

Do not question anything we tell you, god is beyond any humans ability to comprehend.
There are many things about their god beyond comprehension, the main being the demands for worship.
Worship?
Ah diddums, not getting what we need at home are we? Self esteem problems?

Laughable.

This god values an act of stupidity (belief) above all else as qualifying you as one of the better/worthy people?

Null program.

[Blue Bubble]

I was brought up the youngest of 4 brothers by a single parent (mother) in a really rough post-war-built estate in Edinburgh. My mother had no time whatsoever for religion of any sort, so I guess I lack the advantage of having "changed sides" ;)

I was never baptised/christened.

I remember my first exposure to religion in school. I had been absent for a couple of weeks (got my Achilles tendon, ahem, caught in the back wheel of my brother's motor bike). During that time, the rest of the class had evidently been taught to recite the Lord's Prayer in preparation for the annual school visit to the local church (I must have been about 7). We were duly shipped off that morning to the church, and we were all told to bow our heads, close our eyes and recite together the Lord's Prayer. I hadn't a clue what the hell was happening, and can remember thinking "what the f*** are they all doing ?". I couldn't believe it, even at such a young age, and I never once felt the need to get into the ritualistic nonsense.

I have survived (I'm now close to 53). 8) >:D

[wollery]

I guess my upbringing was most like Phaedra's, no religion at home, honest parents, although I don't think I would describe them as skeptics. There was all of the usual assembly stuff at primary school, although at my secondary school the majority of students were Asian, so the christian stuff was replaced with general "bow your heads for reflection" type stuff. I remember when I was about 12 going on a trip to Switzerland that was organized by a christian group, and getting into trouble with the senior staff there for asking questions!

I've never believed in any sort of god, and have variously described myself as agnostic or atheist. Interestingly my atheistic periods have generally occurred at times when I've had people trying to ram their religion down my throat. I guess their forthright certainty in a position I find to be untenable has caused me to react by saying, "Sod you, there is no god!", although I don't think I've ever actually said that to anyone's face.

On the other hand, some of the most interesting discussions I've ever had have been with devoutly religious people - A catholic priest (who was totally non judgemental), a Talmudic scholar (who I've known since I was about 5), a devout muslim (who did his teaching practice in the same school as me, he was a really good bloke and taught me a lot about Islam without ever trying to convert me), a born again christian (who was very open to discussion, and I think was quite impressed that a confirmed non-believer was so informed and also open to discussion) and a pagan guy that I knew at university.

I'd currently describe myself as an apathetic agnostic - don't know, don't care. I suppose the main reason I've never been convinced by any religious argument is that I'm never satisfied with the answer, "It just is!"

[Sgt Badass]

I only encountered religion at school. It was odd. At primary school when we used to have assembly, there would be a bit where we would all pray. I used to put my hands together and feel really.... childish. I was almost embarrassed to be doing it.

Most others around me just carried on and said their prayers out loud, I kinda hid wondering what the hell it was all about.

Then, I remember in the later years of primary a teacher telling us that if anyone asked, our denomination was 'C of E'.

At the time I knew this was wrong but I just didn't know why. Who the hell was this God fella, what's this church thing about (other than free creme eggs at Easter) and what's the deal with this Jesus guy who can apparently rise from the dead?

Then (sorry, not a biography, I'm nearly done), I thought I'd try again and I went to Christian Fellowship once at secondary school. What a crock! I've never heard so much pap spew forth from people I'd up until that point seen as rational, intelligent people.

So I guess I've always been an atheist.

[doubting thomas]

I have always thought of myself an atheist even before i knew there was a word for it.

The biggest shock i got was when i was about 11 years old when our family moved from Sheffield to the West Midlands.

The school in Sheffield had been the normal run of the mill "C of E" but the new school in the Midlands was going to be Roman Catholic due to it being nearest to our new house.

First day at morning assembly during prayers everyone started crossing themselves and I'm scared I'll be picked out for not joining in.

After a few days i realised that it wasn't compulsory and stopped bowing my head also.

Some of the teachers at this school were from the old school "fire and brimstone" brigade and tried to scare us with "god will strike you down" if we did or said anything naughty, and when nobody was ever struck down i began to mount a campain of conversion to atheism amongst the few friends i had due to my non belief.

[Jessie]

Did You Used To Be Religious?

Errrrrrrr - I did try, but failed miserably ;D ;D ;D

I was brought up with my father's parents being very religious. We would go over there occasionally on Sundays and had to say "grace" before dinner. No games of any sort could be played and the television was not allowed to be put on. Later in the day, my grandmother would sit herself at the piano and hymns had to be sung. My mother's parents were not religious at all.

When I was 11 years old, I went to a catholic school. I was in the "non-catholic" group so had "normal" teachers for most subjects (except R.E. and Spanish).

The constant pressure to agree to go to to the chapel to confess one's sins got on my nerves and I never did bow down to their wants. In a way it pushed me further and further away from the Church and anything it was supposed to stand for.

We had a resident Priest and he always made me feel really uncomfortable. He always had his arms around the girls and I just thought it inappropriate and creepy.

Some two years later I decided to rebel and got drunk on the Hockey Pitch with the Cinzano I was supposed to hand in for the Tombola ;D ;D ;D Errrr, I was quietly asked to leave :-[ :-[ :-[ ::)

I then went to my first mixed school - what a shock :o :o :o :o :o :o ;D ;D

So, all in all I am not a "believer". I am very much against people who push religion. They are entitled to their beliefs, but don't preach to me :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

[ocean]

I still "religious"... we all have religious things going on every day. Is your routine ritualistic? Do you repeat the same things (rituals) during the year? can atheist be cataloged as a "religion"? Aren't forums kind of cultish too?


:)


P.D. English is not my main language!

[Mongrel]

I still "religious"... we all have religious things going on every day. Is your routine ritualistic? Do you repeat the same things (rituals) during the year? can atheist be cataloged as a "religion"? Aren't forums kind of cultish too?


:)


P.D. English is not my main language!





Only if you consider work a religion (although I believe the concept of hell started there ;)). Religion requires something to worship (Oxford English Dictionary entry (http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/orexxligion?view=uk)).

Because my routines include a jumbo mug of tea in the moring do I worship tea? Or do a regard tea as a perfect combination of fluid, caffeine and sugar that a non-morning person like myself requires to get the day started?

[ocean]

lol. That's why I'm referring to...


We, maybe don't think we are ritualistic or worshippers, but we are. How many people do not worship their house, their work, their money? Our life is full of religion, maybe not the traditional definition of believing in a God, but pretty ritualistic, schematic and full of slavery rules. ;)



P.D. Sorry for mistakes, my main lnaguage is not english

[chillzero]

How many people do not worship their house, their work, their money? Our life is full of religion, maybe not the traditional definition of believing in a God, but pretty ritualistic, schematic and full of slavery rules. ;)



emm.. I don't. I don't put myself above or below anyone or anything at first, although I'll admit to a bias against people who turn out to be murderous, manipulative, etc.

My life has been a lot cleaner since I moved out any kind of worshipping, and I am happier and healthier for it. I don't worship money, or my job, and especially not my house. I love my family, but don't worship them - I made that mistake with my abusive ex-husband.

I don't think I know anyone who does worship those material things - not in my circle of friends. In the jobs I have had I could see it in some of the upper management, but then that's how they succeed in those positions.

[Mongrel]

lol. That's why I'm referring to...


We, maybe don't think we are ritualistic or worshippers, but we are. How many people do not worship their house, their work, their money? Our life is full of religion, maybe not the traditional definition of believing in a God, but pretty ritualistic, schematic and full of slavery rules. ;)



P.D. Sorry for mistakes, my main lnaguage is not english


I think you may be getting Religion confused with Materialism.

Materialist - hell yea :booze: But just because I enjoy liveing in a house I'm buying, a good computer to play my games on and enough free income to buy most of my 'shiny toys' doesn't mean I worship them.

[ocean]

Cool chillzero... Glad you have get to that point. Much people can't and slave themselves to material things amd make "gods" of them. I mean, how you ever see a woman "worshiping her house", a man "worshipping money"? Worship is not only about getting in your knees. People kill and die for money, some women and man gets workacholic, some people does not wear clothers if their are not from certain brand or prices. Those all are forms of worshiping. People literally serve the "materialistic"objects.


Yeah, materialism can be kind of a "religion". What I mean is how with our traditional definition of religion people think that just because they do not worship a deity they are so free. When you really look people make "religions" of a lot of things and act quite as a religion organization itself.

We are agreeing just that I'm trying to look that people can be quite religious in other aspects of their life. ;)

[Dr B]

I find all forms of religion nauseating, pointless and irrational....each to their own I suppose.... >:D

[Mongrel]

Sorry Ocean - stretching the definition of religion to cover non-religous stuff is at best disingenious. Arbitarily assigning a new definition just to prove a point makes any discussion a little pointless as each side redefines the acceptable boundaries for what a word means.

[ocean]

People makes definitions and people interprets words. You are attaching to a definition without seeing the elements that definitions share between them. I'm not referring here to religion as the definitions already given but to the elements in life that can be "religious", "ritualistics", to the elements in that definition that we often found in "religion" but that are quite similar in other aspects of our life.

Have you ever notice (just an example) how a person critic sunday mass but ritualistically going on sunday to same mall, same store, to sit on the table and has the same coffee? That's more ritualistic than mass itself, it is full of significance (just as in religion) and automatic behavior.

That's simple my point, "that we can be pretty religious". I see it more like a metaphor. And it is just food for thought, I'm not arguing here.

But, we often do not see how we are more alike.



Another example. I have an atheist friend who always critic his neighboor that is refering people to buy or giving bibles. He often said "She is gospeling so much" until (that was funny) he was doing the same with some secular books. He was giving it just as the lady with the Bible. I told him "Now you are gospeling atheism"? See, we often think that skeptism, science, rationality make us so different from religious people and in so many ocassions we act just the same. Pretty interesting!


Nice weekend!




I'm sure you understand my point... ;)




BTW, I want to aknowledge that people here is very respectful at debate and very good listeners. Keep the good work guys!!!! 8)

[median]

Ocean

In terms of being 'religious' I think what possibly can be inadvertently misleading is the distinction between the meanings of this particular adjective.

Religious can be used in a spiritual sense butr also in a duty-bound ritualistic sense. I think it is important, as Mongrel suggests, to sitick with the former definition within the realms of this debate. O0

[chillzero]

Indeed, humankind is a species of habits, but that doesn't necessarily equate with religion.

Doing the same thing sin't the same as doing that thing for worshipful reasons (nice new word there that I made up O0)

[ocean]

Wow, to be skeptics, you guys really accept definition as they are imposed. Ok, then..... I expected more metaphors and symbolism comprehesion here! :D


Maybe is from my career field. I don't think you are getting my point.

[kath23]

For myself I've tried a bit of almost every religion/spirituality that interested me. I was raised atheist but at 9 felt that the Goddess spoke to me. :o

I'm sad to say that I walk the way of the woo, now I counter it with a large dose of scepticism and atheism however.

But old habits of woo die hard :) And even tho I know its naff I still enjoy it. A guilty pleasure, like reading romantic fiction :)

[Mongrel]

Wow, to be skeptics, you guys really accept definition as they are imposed. Ok, then..... I expected more metaphors and symbolism comprehesion here! :D


Maybe is from my career field. I don't think you are getting my point.


Metaphors and symbolism can lead to fuzzy communication and misunderstanding, clear definitions allow people to concentrate on the argument without being side tracked by what the other person means or might mean.
Dictionary.com has definition as
1. the act of defining or making definite, distinct, or clear.
2. the formal statement of the meaning or significance of a word, phrase, etc..

As skeptics we don't challenge everthing just for the sake of it (have a quick read of the factsheet (http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=what_is_skepticism.php)) and whilst language does change over time it's through common usage it's not an arbitrary decision by one person, it's a change on the cultural\national level. Can you imagine science if the words meant whatever the scientist wanted them to mean?

[Cuddles]

Can you imagine science if the words meant whatever the scientist wanted them to mean?

Quantum physics you mean? ;)

[Jocky]

Can you imagine science if the words meant whatever the scientist wanted them to mean?

Quantum physics you mean? ;)


lol ;D ;D

[Mongrel]

Kinda left the door open for that one :D :P