Epistemophobia

[Araneus]

I wondered if there was a named phobia relating to the fear of knowledge, and it turns out there is -- epistemophobia. Other candidates include logophobia (fear of language or words) and sophophobia (fear of wisdom).

It seems that this concept applies to a whole host of problems. Almost every form of proposed censorship (racist material, pornography, violent video games, bomb-making instructions, suicide manuals, pro-anorexia websites, blah blah blah) is based on an underlying belief that "bad knowledge" is dangerous and must be suppressed, by force if necessary.

Similarly, psychics and other woo believers seem to have an almost obsessive fear of knowledge, such that they adopt a viciously defensive attitude to anyone who would challenge their beliefs or attempt to present contrary evidence.

I wonder where this fear comes from, and if it can be challenged? I expect that by eradicating epistemophobia, a large number of irrational behaviours might be similarly disposed of.

[vbloke]

I still like "Ignotum Per Ignotius"
Literally, explaining "the unknown by the more unknown."

[Dr B]

also known as "explaining one mystery with another mystery" O0

[bobdezon]

Lets not forget the dreaded Gnosiophobia, Its a good job most people dont know about that one (or the associated irony of that statement). ;)

[vbloke]

Lets not forget the dreaded Gnosiophobia, Its a good job most people dont know about that one (or the associated irony of that statement). ;)
knowing what that means scares me :cheesy:

[Admin]

Judging by the amount of people who view this forum rather than take part in it and by the number of people who tell me that they like this place but are too scared to post on it, I suggest a new phobia: Skeptophobia.

Skeptophobia: fear of skeptics!!! ;D

People who hold 'weird' beliefs usually can't justify them but they are happier holding beliefs they like rather than than beliefs based on reason and evidence. Skepticism (the search for justified knowledge (http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=what_is_skepticism.php)) forces you to examine your beliefs, i.e. to justify them, and this can lead to the realisation that your beliefs are wrong. This can cause cognitive dissonance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) (basically the mental conflict caused by our inability to hold contrary beliefs at the same time) which then has to be resolved.

The choice is to either change your beliefs (or even entire world-view) to match the evidence, or avoid acquiring such evidence in the first place. I would say the second option is by far the most common thing that people do.

I do see this effect in real life. I generally call it 'wilful ignorance' as people actively avoid anything that conflicts with their beliefs - often by relying on logical fallacies and magical thinking.

I also think that it's the fact that 'weird' beliefs cannot be justified by those who hold them that leads to their anger. We've all seen it. Ask a psychic, for example, to back up a claim they're making and they respond with anger and they usually become very offensive with Ad Hominem arguments and outright insults. It's cognitive dissonance again - they can't defend their position through argument (or proving their ability in a controlled test) so they vilify their opponents and attack them instead.

Adherence to, and persistence of, beliefs is very interesting. There may be evolutionary reasons why we tend to stick with beliefs once they're formed. It may not matter from a survival point of view whether a belief is true or false, just that it helps the holder of it survive.

One thing is fairly certain, and that's the fact that changing beliefs (or world-view) can be a very hard thing to do. Our beliefs form part of our personal identity. In psychoanalytic psychology, changing one's world-view would probably be considered as an 'identity crisis' (where a person develops or alters their sense of identity) and this could explain why changing deeply-held beliefs is so difficult - we lose that sense of continuity that is an important aspect of who we see ourselves as so it's not something to do lightly.

The key really, is to understand belief formation, belief persistence and the personal meaning that such beliefs have for the person who holds them. Unless we can do that we'll always be baffled by people who hold beliefs different to our own; especially when those beliefs are of the 'irrational' type.

There's a great article here called Why bad beliefs don't die: http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html (http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html)





Oops. I seem to have went into ramble mode!! ??? ;D This is an area of interest to me though.

[Allo Allo]

Nice ramble John! And true! :smiley:

[Cuddles]

Skeptophobia doesn't sound very impressive though. I propose we change it to skeptomophobia.

[dalriada]

also known as "explaining one mystery with another mystery" O0


Amazing poster presentation scheduled for this year's Parapsychological Association Conference:

"Is long distance psychokinesis possible in outer space" by Liudmila B. Boldeyreva...

I genuinely thought this was a spoof, but apparently not....

I look forward to next year's symposium on phenomenological approaches to angels' experiences of pinhead dancing. Previous research in this area has concentrated almost entirely on the quantitative aspects of angelic terpsichorean behaviours resulting in the neglect of the equally valid qualitative methodologies which must surely be the way forward for future explorations of the true process and nature of this characteristically angelic activity.

[Dr B]

:chainsaw:

Christ...kill me now....O0

[dalriada]

I confess to feeling a certain amount of reverence for the sheer nerve displayed by the author of that paper. You hear all this talk about researchers "pushing the envelope, "Thinking the unthinkable", " blue skies research" and all but Dear Lord here is someone who is really living that dream.

She didn't just settle for "Is psychokinesis possible?"
She wasn't content with "is long distance psychokinesis possible?"
She went ALL THE WAY OVER HERE-----------------------------> To: "Is Long distance psychokinesis possible in OUTER SPACE"

I am awestruck.

Mind you "A genetic analysis of PSI experiences" by Sergio Schilling and Waldo Mora may be an appropriate follow up....

MY boggle threshold has been well and truly reached.

I love parasychologists! For me, knowing that they're out there right now in Nova Scotia talking about this stuff, at university expense, is like finding out that fairies really do exist.

[n8rae]

Judging by the amount of people who view this forum rather than take part in it and by the number of people who tell me that they like this place but are too scared to post on it, I suggest a new phobia: Skeptophobia.

Skeptophobia: fear of skeptics!!! ;D

Hi I'm new here and this is my first post! I thought this would be a good place to start if only to show i don't have skeptophobia (or maybe i do have it and am trying to cure myself?)



The choice is to either change your beliefs (or even entire world-view) to match the evidence, or avoid acquiring such evidence in the first place. I would say the second option is by far the most common thing that people do.


I was, until recently, a christian. When i started having a crisis of faith (or a crisis of logic) and was realy struggling emotionaly i asked some people how to get my head straight.
One older member of my church, who i respect, told me that she had been struggling with some issues for a while but got over it and found her faith was as strong as ever. When I asked her how she did this her response was "I just decided not to think about it for a while, then when i did think about it later, it wasn't so much of an issue."
This didn't help me much.

A while later when had i made up my mind about ditching the whole God idea, a friend told me that i had caused a few problems with others at the church. He said that while i was a christian i had inspired others with the way i was asking the hard questions about my faith. But when those questions ultimatly lead me away from christianity it scared them. Some people had told him that if asking too many (or the wrong sort of) questions could lead to a complete lack of faith they would rather not ask any questions at all.
(One person said that if i had lost my faith it meant that i could never had been a "real" christian in the first place. I supose this view helped reasure them that it could never happen to them as they are, of course, a "real" christian.)

so that's a small part of my story which seems to back up what you were saying in your long(ish) but interesting ramble.

nathan.

[Allo Allo]

Hi I'm new here and this is my first post! I thought this would be a good place to start if only to show i don't have skeptophobia (or maybe i do have it and am trying to cure myself?)




I was, until recently, a christian. When i started having a crisis of faith (or a crisis of logic) and was realy struggling emotionaly i asked some people how to get my head straight.
One older member of my church, who i respect, told me that she had been struggling with some issues for a while but got over it and found her faith was as strong as ever. When I asked her how she did this her response was "I just decided not to think about it for a while, then when i did think about it later, it wasn't so much of an issue."
This didn't help me much.

A while later when had i made up my mind about ditching the whole God idea, a friend told me that i had caused a few problems with others at the church. He said that while i was a christian i had inspired others with the way i was asking the hard questions about my faith. But when those questions ultimatly lead me away from christianity it scared them. Some people had told him that if asking too many (or the wrong sort of) questions could lead to a complete lack of faith they would rather not ask any questions at all.
(One person said that if i had lost my faith it meant that i could never had been a "real" christian in the first place. I supose this view helped reasure them that it could never happen to them as they are, of course, a "real" christian.)

so that's a small part of my story which seems to back up what you were saying in your long(ish) but interesting ramble.

nathan.

Hi Nathan,

Congratulations on having the courage to post here. This is the right place to bounce ideas around! UK Skeptics have been a great help to me - they are my "thinking" acquaintances (though I have never met one of them).

I dumped "religion" many years ago - but I remember feeling frightened at the time until I realised I had been brainwashed to feel that way. Once I got a grip on the "brainwashed" part - it freed me.

Stick around here. Challenging your own beliefs is one of the most scary acts of your life.

Well done.

[Mongrel]

Hi Nathan,

Congratulations on having the courage to post here. This is the right place to bounce ideas around! UK Skeptics have been a great help to me - they are my "thinking" acquaintances (though I have never met one of them).

I dumped "religion" many years ago - but I remember feeling frightened at the time until I realised I had been brainwashed to feel that way. Once I got a grip on the "brainwashed" part - it freed me.

Stick around here. Challenging your own beliefs is one of the most scary acts of your life.

Well done.

Seconded and well said Allo :)

[Civilised Worm]

What's the difference between epistemophobia and gnosiophobia?

[Mongrel]

What's the difference between epistemophobia and gnosiophobia?

As far as Google can tell me, nothing - they're synonyms.

[mahakala]

Lets not forget the dreaded Gnosiophobia, Its a good job most people dont know about that one (or the associated irony of that statement). ;)

The shoe definately seems to fit in your case. But don't worry, pack up your computer and don't think internet for one year. Then maybe you will grok a little knowledge and no longer be afraid of it.

[bobdezon]

The shoe definately seems to fit in your case. But don't worry, pack up your computer and don't think internet for one year. Then maybe you will grok a little knowledge and no longer be afraid of it.

I do hope your right, could I really grok a little knowlege? It sounds amazing. Thank you for your insightful and wise reply. Now if you would be so kind as to stop a runaway bus with your face I think we could all have some hot cocoa and flumps. O0

[hierosulos]

Judging by the amount of people who view this forum rather than take part in it and by the number of people who tell me that they like this place but are too scared to post on it, I suggest a new phobia: Skeptophobia.

Skeptophobia: fear of skeptics!!! ;D


Perhaps not fear of skeptics- perhaps fear of being made to look like a moron, at least in my case! (It's an unusual feeling for me, but I'm learning a lot and tentatively testing the water, even though I'm aware I could be thwacked for my developing thoughts)

[SKIRRID5]

I think the trouble with very many people (not me, of course-I'm perfect!) is not so much fear of knowlege as lack of interest. Someone once said that the true illiteracy is lack of curiosity.

[Nudles]

Perhaps not fear of skeptics- perhaps fear of being made to look like a moron, at least in my case! (It's an unusual feeling for me, but I'm learning a lot and tentatively testing the water, even though I'm aware I could be thwacked for my developing thoughts)

Since the thread has come back, I thought it would be OK to reply to this.

I know exactly what you mean hierosulos, I spent the first 20 or so years of my life in a similar situation.
Rarely voicing my opinion, as I was still trying to understand where I was myself. I would not challenge peoples statements(within reason), I would only ask them more about their opinion.
I felt I could not fully explain my opinions so I kept them to myself until I got to a point in my life where I felt I had good reasons for believing what I believed, or knowing what I didn't believe and why, enough to be able to explain to others and defend with ease what opinions I held(to the lay person at least).
I've always been a sceptic and an agnostic, so I tend not to say or claim things frivolously.
In the first 20 or so years I rarely challenged someone's opinion just because "it sounded wrong", I could spot logical fallacies, but I had not read about them formally, so I kept quiet about them, as I could not always put my finger on it.
At the extremely ripe old age of 25 :tongue: (at the start of this month), I only feel now that I have really reached a point where I am happy being, intellectually and philosophically(acquired/refined the mental tools I suppose), at least on the right track (tentatively). Able to express my views most of the time. Able to see I have a long way to go in understanding some things and knowing that there are other things I may never understand. I have always known, at every stage of my life, that what I understand now, what I feel now, is just an immature version, a starting point if you will, of what I will feel or come to know in another 5, 10 or even 20 years. Sceptical understanding, philosophical et cetera, is ever evolving, a journey that the mind will never finish.

The problem with some people is they find it hard to say "I don't know", if you can say that when you should, it's hard to go wrong if very careful about what you believe, and are open to the possibility that you can be and are wrong about some things.

When people ask me "do you know that is true?", if I voice an opinion and/or belief, they frequently seem surprised when I say that "I don't know, it seems like the most probable thing to me now, but I would easily change my beliefs if evidence suggests something to the contrary."

(I also never expressed my opinions with people because I always found it hard to put them into words, which is not something I have completely over come :(. Sorry that my posts are so wordy, maybe even verbose. I actually try and keep them short. :-X)

[fallible]

I realise that this is not the best place to post this but I am new here and am too worried to start a new thread in case one already exists. I've noticed an awful lot lately that many now sceptics come from a religious background. In fact, I can't think of anyone right now from among my western acquaintances who did not start out as a Christian. I come from a completely different place. My dad was an out-and-out atheist (he ditched Catholicism when he was old enough to do so without having to care about what his parents thought) and my mum is agnostic. Neither me nor my sister were ever christened (I'm 34, my sister is 46 - it would have been a big deal back then). I have never been a Christian. Is there anyone else out there like me?

[Matt]

I realise that this is not the best place to post this but I am new here and am too worried to start a new thread in case one already exists. I've noticed an awful lot lately that many now sceptics come from a religious background. In fact, I can't think of anyone right now from among my western acquaintances who did not start out as a Christian. I come from a completely different place. My dad was an out-and-out atheist (he ditched Catholicism when he was old enough to do so without having to care about what his parents thought) and my mum is agnostic. Neither me nor my sister were ever christened (I'm 34, my sister is 46 - it would have been a big deal back then). I have never been a Christian. Is there anyone else out there like me?

Pretty much. I was free to make my own decisions about spiritual matters and after researching the major alternatives found myslef most interested in paganism, then eastern philosophies, agnosticism and finally pretty strongly atheist.

My parents wouldn't even tell me what thye believed untill I was old enough not to be influenced by it. I now know that my Dad is a confirmed athiest and suspect that my mum was an agnsotic with deist leanings.

[Nudles]

Fallible, I don't think you need to be too worried about posting something that has been posted before. You can always search for keywords in the search box up top. If it is a personal thread then there should rarely if ever be a problem, even if someone else posted a similar one.

I find that a lot of people who identify as atheists (who I know) were never indoctrinated, or only baptised and such out of tradition (lapsed cultural Christian????), rather than their parents being religiously active.

I would guess a lot of people here are the same, like myself.

[fallible]

Thanks for the replies. It was obvious that there would be others out there with experiences similar to mine but for some reason I had not come into contact with any. *relaxes a bit*.

[Nudles]

You might be surprised how many people started out with similar backgrounds, but I would say with most people, they don't talk about unless probed, they may not even see it as a topic worth discussing or of any interest.

That's why I come to places like this.

[bettyc]

Hi, its my first post on here too, so please all be gentle with me! I was brought up by a Mother who went to Church (high C of E) every Sunday wthout fail, and usually dragged me along with her. I didnt question when I was younger, I just went along, and often fell asleep.

As a teenager I rebelled (firstly by becoming a Mormon - just cos it really got up my Mother's nose - and then sort of drifting into any religion that came along - but never feeling as though they 'fit' right. It didnt dawn on my for a long time that it was the whole Christian thing that didnt fit - now I dont have a set religion I just accept what feels right about any religion - and discard what doesnt. In other words - treat people right and it makes a better world. It doesnt matter what road you take - just go along it without causing a war or trying to brainwash anyone else onto your road - let them find their own.

Does this make sense to anyone or am I just rambling?

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I was only in a religion because I was forced to go to church and Sunday school - sometimes almost forcibly.

It wasn't the 'done thing' to not go. I wasn't objecting to it on any philosophical grounds or anything - but just because it was so damn boring.

The Sunday school lessons, the sermons, the hymns, the people, just the whole bloody lot. It was so dull.

When I got a bit older, I started to think how improbable it all was but only really when I reached my mid twenties did it all become entirely clear to me why I am not religious. Basically because it is a lot of bollocks.

[Nudles]

Hi, its my first post on here too, so please all be gentle with me! I was brought up by a Mother who went to Church (high C of E) every Sunday wthout fail, and usually dragged me along with her. I didnt question when I was younger, I just went along, and often fell asleep.

As a teenager I rebelled (firstly by becoming a Mormon - just cos it really got up my Mother's nose - and then sort of drifting into any religion that came along - but never feeling as though they 'fit' right. It didnt dawn on my for a long time that it was the whole Christian thing that didnt fit - now I dont have a set religion I just accept what feels right about any religion - and discard what doesnt. In other words - treat people right and it makes a better world. It doesnt matter what road you take - just go along it without causing a war or trying to brainwash anyone else onto your road - let them find their own.

Does this make sense to anyone or am I just rambling?

"Hold your own views, but don't expect anyone believe what you do unless you can justify what you believe with empirical testable evidence." Is a variation of what I think your message is?

Welcome to the board, I hope you find it a place where you can develop and refine what you believe.

I think you may find some confrontation (not necessarily aggressive) here if you say you believe in supernatural things or other certain things from religions and/or things which are seen to be of a non-materialistic non-testable bent. Try and use that to develop your own mind and don't be afraid if you get a lot of challenges from people asking you to defend something you think is true. Though I may be way of base here :P.


I was only in a religion because I was forced to go to church and Sunday school - sometimes almost forcibly.

It wasn't the 'done thing' to not go. I wasn't objecting to it on any philosophical grounds or anything - but just because it was so damn boring.

The Sunday school lessons, the sermons, the hymns, the people, just the whole bloody lot. It was so dull.

When I got a bit older, I started to think how improbable it all was but only really when I reached my mid twenties did it all become entirely clear to me why I am not religious. Basically because it is a lot of bollocks.

Lol, that literally made me "laugh out loud".

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Lol, that literally made me "laugh out loud".

I always maintain you don't need deep theological argument to highlight the flaws of religion/god/jesus/etc. Think and ask questions like a child would, and it all falls to pieces. ;)

And hi bettyc, welcome to the board.

[Nudles]

I always maintain you don't need deep theological argument to highlight the flaws of religion/god/jesus/etc. Think and ask questions like a child would, and it all falls to pieces. ;)

And hi bettyc, welcome to the board.

Indeed, and never stop asking questions. Christian churches/people generally hate that :P, means they have to actually think about a lot of things they take for granted.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

How is it that famous quotation goes? Something like

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."

[SKIRRID5]

FarSide - I love that quote; I'm going to remember that one!
I'm not sure about "asking questions as a child would." Kids ask questions all the time, but do they "question" the answers? Surely they accept what they are told by authority (mother or father). Richard Dawkins deals with this at length in "The God Delusion". People who never grow up intellectually, continue to accept what they are told by authority (the priesthood).

[Nudles]

Yeah, I've heard that before, thanks for reminding me of that quote, love it. I heard it as:

Philosophy asks questions that may never be answered. Religion has answers that may never be questioned.

I only wish I knew who said it!

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

FarSide - I love that quote; I'm going to remember that one!
I'm not sure about "asking questions as a child would." Kids ask questions all the time, but do they "question" the answers? Surely they accept what they are told by authority (mother or father). Richard Dawkins deals with this at length in "The God Delusion". People who never grow up intellectually, continue to accept what they are told by authority (the priesthood).

Yes, fair point.

I'll still stand by the point that you don't need a degree in theology to make their arguments look stupid. You might not win the argument (that is impossible unfortunately), but simple questions are the hardest ones for them to answer.