Explaining colin frys readings

[kennbarlow]

Apologies if this subject has been discussed before, i did a search but couldn't find a similar thread

I have been watching the sixth sense with colin fry. most of what he says is just cold reading but some of the information seems very specific. does anybody know where he gets the specific info from? are the people in the audience asked to fill out forms about themselves or does he get his people to mingle with the audience to find out about them?

[Mongrel]

You missed Googling as well ;)

[kennbarlow]

Thanks, i did trying googling but all the sites i found like this one http://www.tonyyouens.com/colinfry.htm say its all cold reading. i don't think it can just be cold reading, some of the information seems too specific. i think he could be using the same trick peter popoff used

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Don't those progammes have very small audiences?

I'm in no doubt he knows an awful lot about his audience. The 'honour' of being chosen to go on the show is a big advantage for him, people must be desperate to provide him with information.

[Matt]

Well I don't know for sure but I can hazzard a guess

When Colin Fry records in Bournemouth in November I confidently predict there will be a woman in the audience.

I'm getting a J

Something like Jane but not Jane Janette! Yes Janette. Janette, you're local aren't you Janette, from near here. yes? Yes I knew you were from <blank> So what is the significance to you of the number 8?

http://www.livingtv.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?threadid=147805

Then there's the upcoming show in Essex. There will be another woman in the audience.

The message I've got is for someone who's travelled travelled a long way to be here. From overseas. Her name is something like Terry. Up the back there Teresa is it. Yes you. Don't be shy. Telle veryone where you've come from today?

Ireland! - well I don't need to be psychic to tell that {cheap laugh at accent}

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index.php?qid=20070620105612AAFzGwT

And I see a wedding in your future? yes It's Your wedding? or per... Yes its Your Wedding and is he here today? No I can tell you he loves you so much. {pause for applause} yes it's a realy sprititual love.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AiguYUOHPieiYakHmJ4JYyLg5gt.?qid=200705 20102933AA1Zt7O


Now Teresa you're converned about a pain aren't you {coyly} in your down belows. Is that right?

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Au9FPfCYhqQBknua3k7kY3bg5gt.?qid=200706 24044943AAB4qGP

Well I'm not a doctor so I'm completely unqualified to give you any medical advice, I mean fuggit I'm not even a medium, I'm an exposed fraud but that's not going to stop me risking your life in order to make a few measly quid....

[Mongrel]

Thanks, i did trying googling but all the sites i found like this one http://www.tonyyouens.com/colinfry.htm say its all cold reading. i don't think it can just be cold reading, some of the information seems too specific. i think he could be using the same trick peter popoff used

Apologies - I shouldn't post before my second cuppa ;)

What I meant was you can get a lot of information about people on the internet just from a name and address. Even more if they use one of the popular networking sites like Myspace or facebook, maybe even a blog...

[kennbarlow]

cheers guys! :smiley: i didn't know you could find out so much about people on google

[JonDonnis]

Keep in mind his TV show is heavily edited too.
The misses are cut out, and the hits left in.

So what mayjust be a random guess that hits, will seem like amazing proof of his powers.

The truth is he uses cold reading and probably a bit of hot reading too

[Tony Papard]

Keep in mind his TV show is heavily edited too.
The misses are cut out, and the hits left in.

So what mayjust be a random guess that hits, will seem like amazing proof of his powers.

The truth is he uses cold reading and probably a bit of hot reading too

That may well be true, that the misses are edited out, though he seemed pretty accurate when I saw him 'live'. The message he gave me was certainly very accurate.

But cold reading: 'Why do I see a man wearing a balaclava and pajamas?'

Answer from woman in audience: 'That was the outfit my father wore when he was doing decorating!'

Another 'cold reading': 'She's chasing someone down the street with a wooden paddle used for agitating the laundry'

Answer from woman in audience (laughing at the memory): 'That's right, my mother did do that on one occasion'.

An many similar messages. You couldn't make it up - there must be something going on whether it's telepathy or messages from the Other Side.

You wouldn't find such information by googling someone - come on, get real!

If they were plants, or had given the information to Colin beforehand, why has nobody exposed this fraud to the tabloids? They'd get paid well for such an expose.

[scoobyjack]

That may well be true, that the misses are edited out, though he seemed pretty accurate when I saw him 'live'. The message he gave me was certainly very accurate.

But cold reading: 'Why do I see a man wearing a balaclava and pajamas?'

Answer from woman in audience: 'That was the outfit my father wore when he was doing decorating!'

Another 'cold reading': 'She's chasing someone down the street with a wooden paddle used for agitating the laundry'

Answer from woman in audience (laughing at the memory): 'That's right, my mother did do that on one occasion'.

An many similar messages. You couldn't make it up - there must be something going on whether it's telepathy or messages from the Other Side.

You wouldn't find such information by googling someone - come on, get real!

If they were plants, or had given the information to Colin beforehand, why has nobody exposed this fraud to the tabloids? They'd get paid well for such an expose.

Sorry Tony but these do not constitute anything but 'cold reading' I can relate directly to the second example as I am sure a lot of people could to some degree.

Were I a believer I could also bend some memories to fit the first example; in fact my nephew wore something similar last night whilst he was 'hiding' from me ( in the way small kids think if they cover their eyes you cant see them) last night as I put him to bed. It was not a balaclava but a 'thomas the tank engine' hat pulled over his eyes. However if I believed I could twist the story to fit 'me'.

If he was to say "person 'x', I see your father 'y' painting whilst wearing pyjamas and a balaclava" it would be slightly more plausible, though not proof or unexplainable.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

If they were plants, or had given the information to Colin beforehand, why has nobody exposed this fraud to the tabloids? They'd get paid well for such an expose.

Emmm, see Derek Acorah and Kreed Kafer. See the Colin Fry trumpet incident. :trumpet: See stopsylviabrowne.com. See BadPsychics.com. See Watchdog the other night. Plenty of minor media coverage of how fraudulent psychics are.

The truth is the tabloids couldn't care about psychics. Exposing psychics is a niche market. They have plenty of other fish to fry.

Just because we don't see them being exposed weekly in The Sun, doesn't mean they aren't complete cons.

If you think Colin Fry is doing something psychically, you aren't aware of the ability of cold reading combined with basic human psychology, to delude even the smartest of people.

[Tony Papard]

Emmm, see Derek Acorah and Kreed Kafer. See the Colin Fry trumpet incident. :trumpet: See stopsylvia.com. See BadPsychics.com. See Watchdog the other night. Plenty of minor media coverage of how fraudulent psychics are.

The truth is the tabloids couldn't care about psychics. Exposing psychics is a niche market. They have plenty of other fish to fry.

Just because we don't see them being exposed weekly in The Sun, doesn't mean they aren't complete cons.

If you think Colin Fry is doing something psychically, you aren't aware of the ability of cold reading combined with basic human psychology, to delude even the smartest of people.

Sylvia Browne - fraudulent medium who writes science fiction books and pretends they are accurate descriptions of 'the afterlife'.

Derek Acorah/Sally Morgan - I have yet to be convinced they are genuine mediums. The jury's still out for me with these two.

'Lincoln'/Colin Fry trumpet incident - now 16 years ago, when he was very inexperienced. He claims it was a mischievous entity called Daniel who was responsible. This is of course quite ridiculous if you rule out the possibility of an afterlife. It you admit to the possibility, then it is plausible.

Whatever, I don't see how Colin's very specific messages can be 'cold reading'.

Nor does 'cold reading' even begin to explain messages which have come straight into my head from my deceased life-partner. I asked him to help me find some negatives - next day he told me to look in my larder of all places, and I found them on the top shelf. Another time he told me to look in another cupboard to find a Walkman cover I didn't even know existed - I found it. When I was writing him a post-humous letter I said 'should I stop writing these letters' and next day I got the answer via one of his records which I suddenly had the urge to pull from his collection blindly and at random, without looking at the sleeve, artist or track titles. Immediately Dorothy Squires' voice answered my question by saying my letters kept us 'near while apart'. Coincidence? Well yes, if you accept coincidence after coiincidence after coincidence.

It seems to me it is hardened skeptics who are deluding themselves by refusing to look at the evidence objectively.

[vbloke]

Sylvia Browne - fraudulent medium who writes science fiction books and pretends they are accurate descriptions of 'the afterlife'.don't forget the fact that her books contradict each other regularly

Derek Acorah/Sally Morgan - I have yet to be convinced they are genuine mediums. The jury's still out for me with these two.If they were genuine, it should be 100% obvious immediately, the fact that you doubt them shows that their abilities are not genuine.

'Lincoln'/Colin Fry trumpet incident - now 16 years ago, when he was very inexperienced. He claims it was a mischievous entity called Daniel who was responsible. This is of course quite ridiculous if you rule out the possibility of an afterlife. It you admit to the possibility, then it is plausible.Either you're a medium or not - inexperienced shouldn't come into it. Either he can cause these things to happen, or he cheats. He was caught cheating. Even the afterlife can't explain that away.

Whatever, I don't see how Colin's very specific messages can be 'cold reading'. You'd be surprised. I suggest you look up cold reading and watch Derren brown at work. You can get VERY specific things from cold reading, as well as confirmation biases on the part of the readee.

Nor does 'cold reading' even begin to explain messages which have come straight into my head from my deceased life-partner. I asked him to help me find some negatives - next day he told me to look in my larder of all places, and I found them on the top shelf. Another time he told me to look in another cupboard to find a Walkman cover I didn't even know existed - I found it. When I was writing him a post-humous letter I said 'should I stop writing these letters' and next day I got the answer via one of his records which I suddenly had the urge to pull from his collection blindly and at random, without looking at the sleeve, artist or track titles. Immediately Dorothy Squires' voice answered my question by saying my letters kept us 'near while apart'. Coincidence? Well yes, if you accept coincidence after coiincidence after coincidence.No they don't, but simple psychology does. How many times have you heard this voice and not found / done what the voice said? People remember hits and forget misses. it's a proven psychological phenomena - no paranormal ability needed.

It seems to me it is hardened skeptics who are deluding themselves by refusing to look at the evidence objectively.Skeptics have no emotional investment in if these phenomena exist or not - we look at the evidence and don't see what you do, as you are emotionally involved and invested in it and see what you want to see, regardless of evidence.

[John Jackson]

But cold reading: 'Why do I see a man wearing a balaclava and pajamas?'

Answer from woman in audience: 'That was the outfit my father wore when he was doing decorating!'

That's a prime example of how Cold Reading works!!!

The 'psychics' throws out a question containing some information that has no context.

The audience member (one of many who could make it fit) supplies the meaning and adds more information including context.

The audience member will later recall this incident and say something like this: "the psychic told me about my father and the afterlife must be true because he mentioned the time he was decorating in his balaclava and pyjamas - something the psychic couldn't possibly have known".

That's how the trick of Cold Reading works. It's the client who provides the meaning and context to the reading (!)

What is said and what is remembered are usually quite different. This is why I asked for a recording of your reading from Colin Fry.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

It seems to me it is hardened skeptics who are deluding themselves by refusing to look at the evidence objectively.

Tony,

Have you much experience of dealing with skeptics so far, or are you just assuming that they are like this? The people here deal with logic and reason, they don't take a position and stick to it rigidly even in the face or overwhelming evidence. We've seen all these claims before, and there is nothing in your claims that are new. Hence why a recording or transcript would be of interest. There is nothing as infallible as the human mind - and that is difficult for a lot of people to appreciate fully.

[dee]

I am pretty sure that I read or have seen something to the effect somewhere that he has the names of his audience in advance. He was sending staff to their addresses to see what they could find out as someone who was doing a survey in the local area.

It was many years ago, so perhaps things have changed now.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

This is just embarassing for Colin Fry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrV7A3RECJA

He is channeling his spirit guide Magnus ::).

So embarassing, that he asked Bad Psychics to remove it from their site on the premise of infringement of copyright.

http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=547

More likely, it was only for the consumption of those who believe his crap in the first place as it makes him look like a complete fraud and idiot. Anyone who believes what he is doing is 'real' needs to have a serious think about reality and their place on this earth.

[Cuddles]

I am pretty sure that I read or have seen something to the effect somewhere that he has the names of his audience in advance. He was sending staff to their addresses to see what they could find out as someone who was doing a survey in the local area.

It was many years ago, so perhaps things have changed now.

I don't know about Colin Fry specifically, but that sort of thing is very common. Anything on TV is immediately suspect since they will have the names, addresses and various other details of everyone who will be there. When simply performing live, there are very often people gong round talking to people beforehand, and there's always the chance to do some research on local events as well. Cold reading is a great explanation for small-time psychics when you can turn up for a reading without booking in advance, but as soon as it becomes a performance ou can guarantee it is warm or hot reading.

[jamiefox]

Apologies if this subject has been discussed before, i did a search but couldn't find a similar thread

I have been watching the sixth sense with colin fry. most of what he says is just cold reading but some of the information seems very specific. does anybody know where he gets the specific info from? are the people in the audience asked to fill out forms about themselves or does he get his people to mingle with the audience to find out about them? i think he has a team who find out things without the person knowing,and this team will have the same sort of skills and methods as a private investigator,,

[Mongrel]

i think he has a team who find out things without the person knowing,and this team will have the same sort of skills and methods as a private investigator,,

Not forgetting, for the younger 'viewers', many people put up all sorts of personal details on blogs and social networking sites. Try a vanity Google and see what turns up O0

[Cradle Cap]

Hello, first-time poster, moved to reply to this thread because I'm glad I saw it. I, too, have found myself wondering about the ways psychics acquire their information.

I find some of the 'investigative/Googling' theories upthread slightly fanciful, not to mention logistically prohibitive. But let's say it is the case, then why, with all these fraudulent psychics (and therefore, presumably, thousands of investigators) has there never been a whistle-blower? So for those reasons, I just can't get with that theory.

Cold reading would seem to be the most plausible and logical explanation, and as Derren Brown has shown this can be very effective, but again, this doesn't quite cover all the bases as I think Tony's examples show. I could accept, say, that the balaclava and pyjamas combo might be a lucky hit, but all of those? In one show? Hmm...

What I'd like to know is, has there ever been a case of an ex-psychic or assistant lifting the lid on the game?

[Mongrel]

Hello, first-time poster, moved to reply to this thread because I'm glad I saw it. I, too, have found myself wondering about the ways psychics acquire their information.

I find some of the 'investigative/Googling' theories upthread slightly fanciful, not to mention logistically prohibitive. But let's say it is the case, then why, with all these fraudulent psychics (and therefore, presumably, thousands of investigators) has there never been a whistle-blower? So for those reasons, I just can't get with that theory.

Why? Admittedly not so useful for the big crowd type readings but for a 1 on 1 pre-booked appointment it's potentially very useful.

As for a book "Full Facts of Cold reading" by Ian Rowland is the best one to have, available from his site, http://www.ianrowland.com/ItemsToBuy/ColdReading/ColdReadingMain1.html

[Cradle Cap]

Why? Admittedly not so useful for the big crowd type readings but for a 1 on 1 pre-booked appointment it's potentially very useful.

As for a book "Full Facts of Cold reading" by Ian Rowland is the best one to have, available from his site, http://www.ianrowland.com/ItemsToBuy/ColdReading/ColdReadingMain1.html

Well, because a psychic working from home would see, say, five clients a day, five days a week. That's 25 people who need investigating. How many of those have detailed biographical information available on the internet? There's absolutely none on me, for example, nor for most of the people I know. Which means investigations have to be launched via other means. A professional investigator, perhaps? Maybe, but that's got to eat into the profits, don't you think? £50 an hour for a reading, top whack. Do you know how much investigators charge per hour? It just doesn't work logistically is what I'm saying.

Thanks for the tip on the cold reading book. I'll look into that.

On edit: Woah, just seen the price! What is it, made of gold or something?

[Mulder]

On edit: Woah, just seen the price! What is it, made of gold or something?

Cheap at the price if you're thinking of making a living as a psychic. Might even be able to claim it as a business expense. :smiley:

[brodski]

Hello, first-time poster, moved to reply to this thread because I'm glad I saw it. I, too, have found myself wondering about the ways psychics acquire their information.

I find some of the 'investigative/Googling' theories upthread slightly fanciful, not to mention logistically prohibitive. But let's say it is the case, then why, with all these fraudulent psychics (and therefore, presumably, thousands of investigators) has there never been a whistle-blower? So for those reasons, I just can't get with that theory.

Cold reading would seem to be the most plausible and logical explanation, and as Derren Brown has shown this can be very effective, but again, this doesn't quite cover all the bases as I think Tony's examples show. I could accept, say, that the balaclava and pyjamas combo might be a lucky hit, but all of those? In one show? Hmm...

What I'd like to know is, has there ever been a case of an ex-psychic or assistant lifting the lid on the game?
Take a look at the book “the psychic mafia”, where an ex professional psychic does exactly that, and gives in depth information about the information which spiritualists held on their marks, and shared with each other- as well as revealing all other manner of dirty tricks.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Psychic-Mafia-M-Lamar-Keene/dp/1573921610

[brettdbass]

Take a look at the book “the psychic mafia”, where an ex professional psychic does exactly that, and gives in depth information about the information which spiritualists held on their marks, and shared with each other- as well as revealing all other manner of dirty tricks.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Psychic-Mafia-M-Lamar-Keene/dp/1573921610

Damn, wish this post had been up 24 hours ago, before I placed my Amazon order!
Where's a good time machine when you need one?

ETA: *gulp* I think I might need a money printing machine as well! :shocked:

[brodski]

Damn, wish this post had been up 24 hours ago, before I placed my Amazon order!
Where's a good time machine when you need one?

ETA: *gulp* I think I might need a money printing machine as well! :shocked:

Good lord, I hadn't seen the price of that!

[Matt]

But let's say it is the case, then why, with all these fraudulent psychics (and therefore, presumably, thousands of investigators) has there never been a whistle-blower?

Who says there hasn't?

ETA looks like that answer has already been given in full. Please ignore me.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

The power of cold reading and the fallibility of human memory is much underestimated. You don't need that much hot reading to be taking place to get the anecdotal reports of psychic success.

Hot reading is used for the piece de resistance. Cold reading is the bread and butter. By that I mean you will often see a piece of hot reading used as evidence of the greatness of a particular medium, whereas in their normal operation they will just employ cold reading with some or little success.

Sally Morgan is greatest exponent of this, and also Gordon Smith springs to mind.

[Cradle Cap]

The power of cold reading and the fallibility of human memory is much underestimated. You don't need that much hot reading to be taking place to get the anecdotal reports of psychic success.

Hot reading is used for the piece de resistance. Cold reading is the bread and butter. By that I mean you will often see a piece of hot reading used as evidence of the greatness of a particular medium, whereas in their normal operation they will just employ cold reading with some or little success.

Sally Morgan is greatest exponent of this, and also Gordon Smith springs to mind.

Hot reading is forewarned, then? You couldn't give me an example? SM and GS combine the two? If yes, then this leads me back to my original question. How are they compiling the data?

P.S As a 'newbie' I appreciate you guys' patience on this.

[Mongrel]

Well, because a psychic working from home would see, say, five clients a day, five days a week. That's 25 people who need investigating. How many of those have detailed biographical information available on the internet? There's absolutely none on me, for example, nor for most of the people I know. Which means investigations have to be launched via other means. A professional investigator, perhaps? Maybe, but that's got to eat into the profits, don't you think? £50 an hour for a reading, top whack. Do you know how much investigators charge per hour? It just doesn't work logistically is what I'm saying.

Never said it was the bread and butter investigative source but 10 minutes can get a lot of simple 'throwaway', not deep investigative, facts if a person has an online presence. Whilst it may be a skewed sample as I work for a IT company but I'd say more than 50% of the people at work have a Myspace account or similar. From that you could get favourite band, pet names and a review of the party that they were at last weekend, doesn't sound like a lot but throw a couple of those in to a reading and they're big confirmation hits.

Chuck in another 10 minutes to see if their name turns up in local papers (they're often hard to search through from Google), better at their site and for a minor time investment there's enough small factoids to impress a credulous person.

[Cradle Cap]

From that you could get favourite band, pet names and a review of the party that they were at last weekend, doesn't sound like a lot but throw a couple of those in to a reading and they're big confirmation hits.

"Why am I hearing the name Cobain? I can smell vomit in your recent past…"

Hmm, not sure about the MySpace/psychic-client crossover there.

Try it this way. It's often useful to employ this method when thinking about plausibility scenarios.

You're a screenwriter working on a movie. Your central character is a fraudulent psychic and his MO is gathering pre-information on his subjects ('hot reading' I'm getting from here). How do you make that work for the audience? The audience won't buy the MySpace thing because MySpace users just aren't the kind of people who go to psychics. Psychic clients are women, middle-aged, not that computer-savvy. They don't 'do' Myspace. They don't really 'do' much internet at all. They are quite credulous, however. But, here's the thing, the psychic needs to prove to them that he is the genuine article otherwise they'll never come back. How does he do that?

[Fiona]

Why do you think psychic clients are middle aged women? Not my experience at all, at least

[Mongrel]

Try it this way. It's often useful to employ this method when thinking about plausibility scenarios.

OK :smiley:
You're a screenwriter working on a movie. Your central character is a fraudulent psychic and his MO is gathering pre-information on his subjects ('hot reading' I'm getting from here). How do you make that work for the audience?
Any way you want to, you're the screenwriter, given that I'm watching Smallville at the moment "They look at Myspace" is something that the audience could associate with far easier.
The audience won't buy the MySpace thing because MySpace users just aren't the kind of people who go to psychics.
I'm guessing that you haven't seen the average Myspace user, you can find angel believers, homeopaths, otherkin, furries, goths and Emos - psychics are another drop in the ocean
Psychic clients are women, middle-aged, not that computer-savvy. They don't 'do' Myspace.
Middle aged women doesn't mean not computer savvy. I know plenty of middle aged, and older women, who are perfectly happy using computers, IM programs, HTML templates, Myspace (it is a networking site after all) and can even write better SQL than me. The internet is a great way to keep the family in touch
They don't really 'do' much internet at all.
See above, I'd like to see some evidence for this as my anecdotal data contradicts yours
They are quite credulous, however. But, here's the thing, the psychic needs to prove to them that he is the genuine article otherwise they'll never come back. How does he do that?
As I've said, the internet is one of many tools available, cold readers aren't looking to do an episode of 'This is your Life', they're just after some small factoids that "They couldn't possibly have known!", this establishes credibility far better than "Male in the family, pain, stomach or chest area and D or S..."

[Cradle Cap]

I'm guessing that you haven't seen the average Myspace user..."

Fantastic. I still think there's a *public perception* of MySpace as primarily a kids' thing, no doubt fuelled by the recent spate of Myspace party stories. But, as you point out, it has a far more diverse user base. Five seconds' research provides me with this non-anecdotal evidence that should satisfy us both: "30 percent of Facebook users are between the ages of 12 and 24, more than half of MySpace’s visitors are over 35."

We can get round the whole perception thing with some kind of factoid at the beginning, pre-credits. *However*, it does mean we're rather relying on our guy using a single (or generic) source -- 'social networking sites'. What did he do before then? After all, psychics have been around far longer than social networking sites. Maybe on the one hand his job has been made easier by their popularity, but on the other we don't have any evidence to say that psychics have improved during this time. So... we can only have him using Myspace et al *in addition* to his main research. As you say, the internet is one of many tools of research. What are (or more pertinently, pre-SNS, 'were') the others?

[Matt]

You're a screenwriter working on a movie. Your central character is a fraudulent psychic and his MO is gathering pre-information on his subjects ('hot reading' I'm getting from here). How do you make that work for the audience? The audience won't buy the MySpace thing because MySpace users just aren't the kind of people who go to psychics. Psychic clients are women, middle-aged, not that computer-savvy. They don't 'do' Myspace. They don't really 'do' much internet at all. They are quite credulous, however. But, here's the thing, the psychic needs to prove to them that he is the genuine article otherwise they'll never come back. How does he do that?

OK others have poo-pooed the idea that there's no chance the client is on myface reuinited or other internet site. But lets just say they don't. £17 per month buys you unlimited online searches of the electoral register. The client is almost certainly there. Now you've got their current and possibly past addresses, also the names of close relatives and house mates. You can go back a few years on that. Not a bad starting point. Genes reunited helps you trace families. You can look up announcements in the hatched, matched and dispatched of their local papers. Another monthly subscription buys credit checks.

I'm not sure but you might be able to subscribe to various Job Search sites as an agent and you might be able to track down their CV - even if they didn't put it online themselves, if they've used an employment agency in that past it could be in the system.

Remeber you don't have to commit to any of this information. Is she that Janet Smith whose mother Belinda Rogers dies two years ago? Lead with I'm getting the name Roger then if Belinda Rogers turns out to be a bust there's still a chance that there's a Roger somewhere.

Check the frequency of names see what the safest bet is.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/search.php?g=1&t=1&s=Roger

Roger is currently languishing down in position 400 or so in the list of most popular baby names. However 70 years or so it was far more popular. This makes it a good choice for a guess, you're far more likly to get a hit amongst the names of the recently deceased than peopel might suspect from looking at the frequency of the name today.

Belinda (http://www.thinkbabynames.com/search.php?g=0&t=1&s=belinda)has never been particularly popular but the similar sounding Linda is another good choice.

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/search.php?g=0&t=1&s=Linda

So your protagonist manages to track down what she thinks is the mother's name, knows she died about two years ago, cause of death was in the local paper.

She's decided on leading with "I'm getting a name that sounds like Linda, maybe Melinda, no Belinda" Seeing the recognition on her clients face she has it all confirmed. "Yes it's coming through clearly now, definitely Belinda Rogers, died of a heart attack a couple of years ago. She's your mother isn't she sweetie"

Bam! Straight out of the box a massive hit. Your protagonist can whitter on for the rest of the session saying nothing of substance at all. This is all the client will remember.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Hot reading is forewarned, then? You couldn't give me an example? SM and GS combine the two? If yes, then this leads me back to my original question. How are they compiling the data?

P.S As a 'newbie' I appreciate you guys' patience on this.

Sally Morgan uses hot reading and editing to make her television shows look amazing. However, if you read recent accounts of her shows on BadPsychics.com, you will see that she is far from impressive in the flesh.

Bad Psychics has several transcripts of Gordon Smith readings were he employs simple cold reading techniques.

[Mongrel]

*However*, it does mean we're rather relying on our guy using a single (or generic) source -- 'social networking sites'.
The point that I've mentioned several times is that the internet, like any other tool at their disposal, is one item that they can use. There's no one, single way that they do it, there's a whole host of small tricks that they combine for the best result.

[Cradle Cap]

The point that I've mentioned several times is that the internet, like any other tool at their disposal, is one item that they can use. There's no one, single way that they do it, there's a whole host of small tricks that they combine for the best result.

Hi, M, I absolutely acknowledged that point in my last post, but won't reiterate my subsequent question as it's been rather excellently tackled by Matt.

Matt, in order to verify some of what you're saying, what we need to do is make an appointment with a psychic (hm, perhaps I should try, all in the name of research). What information do they take? Do we know? One thing that strikes me, psychics must have many appointments who, though not openly sceptical, keep their powder dry, so to speak. Those who refuse to divulge personal details in the first instance, sit with arms crossed during face-to-face meetings. This must be a familiar 'type' of client for our protagonist. I bet he even has a name for them. For the purposes of this exercise let's say he calls them 'the willing unbelievers'. What tactics has he developed to deal with them? Can't hot-read, remember, and he badly needs a hit on this one...

[SimonC]

One thing that strikes me, psychics must have many appointments who, though not openly sceptical, keep their powder dry, so to speak. Those who refuse to divulge personal details in the first instance, sit with arms crossed during face-to-face meetings. This must be a familiar 'type' of client for our protagonist. I bet he even has a name for them. For the purposes of this exercise let's say he calls them 'the willing unbelievers'. What tactics has he developed to deal with them? Can't hot-read, remember, and he badly needs a hit on this one...

Hi Cradle Cap.

I have actually tried this with supposed psychics, on one or two occasions. The usual get-out, under these circumstances, will be for the 'psychic' to claim that the sitter's reticence is "causing negative vibrations", "making communication difficult", or something similar. There are many ways that this can be expressed, but the implication is always the same; that the unsuccessful session is a result of the sitter's demeanor, rather than the psychic's lack of ability.

Clearly it would be an expensive experiment to try this in a situation where one has to pay for a 'psychic's' time, I did it, however, at a free demonstration of psychic abilities, during a psychic fayre at a local hotel. ( people were invited to pay for in-depth sessions after the free demonstrations ). I didn't remain entirely stony-faced, as that would have been rudely aggressive, but instead responded to statements with simple 'thank you' and 'that's interesting' comments. The 'psychic' tried for a while, with suggestions becoming more and more broad, before stating that I was not 'strongly spiritually linked', then moving on to try another punter...

[Matt]

Hi, M, I absolutely acknowledged that point in my last post, but won't reiterate my subsequent question as it's been rather excellently tackled by Matt.

Matt, in order to verify some of what you're saying, what we need to do is make an appointment with a psychic (hm, perhaps I should try, all in the name of research). What information do they take? Do we know? One thing that strikes me, psychics must have many appointments who, though not openly sceptical, keep their powder dry, so to speak. Those who refuse to divulge personal details in the first instance, sit with arms crossed during face-to-face meetings. This must be a familiar 'type' of client for our protagonist. I bet he even has a name for them. For the purposes of this exercise let's say he calls them 'the willing unbelievers'. What tactics has he developed to deal with them? Can't hot-read, remember, and he badly needs a hit on this one...

Fake Psychics have a broad range of techniques in thier arsenal. Different psychics may use different techniques in differing circumstances. Techniques that are good for working a room might not be so good one on one. Hot reading is not allways possible. Cold reading is not allways possible. Sometimes all you can do is take a flyer and hope it comes off. Failing is an option. As the old saying goes you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Psychics don't have to. They do just fine fooling just some of the people.

Now you say he badly needs a hit. Why? If there's something special about this client that means they can't just be one of the many that aren't impressed then that constitutes some infomration the reader has and can exploit.

[Mulder]

... You're a screenwriter working on a movie. Your central character is a fraudulent psychic and his MO is gathering pre-information on his subjects ('hot reading' I'm getting from here). How do you make that work for the audience? ...

Out of interest, are you a screen writer? I ask because you seem very interested in whether a possible audience would find the supposed methods of 'fake' psychics credible.

[Cradle Cap]

Out of interest, are you a screen writer? I ask because you seem very interested in whether a possible audience would find the supposed methods of 'fake' psychics credible.


No, but I do find this exercise useful when examining grandiose or throwaway statements. Just a way of unpicking things to get at the truth, really. For example, say we set our movie in 1978, pre-internet, what is our guy doing for his hot-readings then? Matt will say 'utilising a broad range of techniques', but how on earth do we show that on screen? We have to have him 'doing' something. What is he doing?

[Matt]

No, but I do find this exercise useful when examining grandiose or throwaway statements. Just a way of unpicking things to get at the truth, really. For example, say we set our movie in 1978, pre-internet, what is our guy doing for his hot-readings then? Matt will say 'utilising a broad range of techniques', but how on earth do we show that on screen? We have to have him 'doing' something. What is he doing?

The electoral register is searchable at your local library. I was in 1978 too. Local Paper archives would be on Microfiche, again at the library. Register of Births Deaths and Mariages I believe was publicaly available as would be parish registers. In 1978 credit reports would be requested and delivered by post. Back in 1978 tis would have entailed a great deal of work. Worthwile only for targetting a particularly juicy customer. Sucker lists existed back then too, infact this was before regulation that further restircted how such information could be traded. So in some ways a more beneficial time for fraudulent psychics.

If a client was refered their may be information coming from the referrer.

Another form of Hot/Warm reading works with the big crowds. Often the audience is asked to fill in cards giving personal information. The pychics assitants circulate int he corud listening for snippets of information. The convicted psychic Helen Duncan admitted to doing this, though she said it was only to avoid dissapointing her audience when her genuine power was on the wane.

Even without research a face to face reading allows the psychic access to a great deal of infomration. The client's age, gender, manner of dress and from this wealth and social status. It may not seem much to go on but see what can be done with it here.

http://www.tonyyouens.com/sophistry.htm

[brettdbass]

By far the most famous example of hot reading in action is Randi's debunking of Peter Popoff some years ago.

Here is the evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BQKu0YP8Y

The exact techniques described by others on this thread are blatantly being employed.
Popoff made himself a multi-millionaire very quickly with this charade. Randi debunked him at a time when many thousands of people were utterly convinced he was a channel for the power of god. Some time later, Popoff came back with more shams and cons and again many thousands of people bought into it, despite his track record.

Only goes to show how easy it is to fool most of the people all of the time. Also a very good depiction of exactly why I choose to call myself a skeptic.

[Mulder]

I think the psychics I've met must be particularly useless at hot, cold and even luke warm readings. No psychic has ever told me anything that was even remotely relevant far less correct! Perhaps I'm just unlucky ... or maybe not so easily impressed by poor guesses ...

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I think the psychics I've met must be particularly useless at hot, cold and even luke warm readings. No psychic has ever told me anything that was even remotely relevant far less correct! Perhaps I'm just unlucky ... or maybe not so easily impressed by poor guesses ...

That's the problem, anytime you debate with psychic followers about how poor a performance was, they will always recommend someone else as 'better' or more 'genuine'. If you get a chance to experience them and witness just how bad they also are, then they will pull another name out of the hat. And so on ad infinitum :-[

Psychics don't impress skeptics because we know the tricks they pull. Even with a little knowledge, the psychic act becomes a farce.

You don't even have to be that gullible to be taken in by psychics, you just need to have no knowledge of the processes at work. That is why cold reading can be so powerful on it's own, even without hot reading. If the psychic gets a few lucky guesses then the punter comes away amazed. If they do a bad reading, there are all manner of excuses employed, such as not getting a connection with the spirits or some other flannel.

[SimonC]

A couple of other points to bear in mind, Cradle Cap.

The first is that cold readers will very often start fishing for information by basing their statements around three areas that affect virtually everybody - relationships, money and health. If you read transcripts of supposed psychics, you'll very often come across a statement like "I sense that financial issues are on your mind...".

What does 'financial issues' mean? It could be anything from an ongoing, expensive legal matter to the fact that the person lost a tenner in the street. It's almost a guaranteed hit.

The same can be applied to the other topics - who doesn't have some kind of health or relationship issue in their life? If not the person themself then among their family or friends. A cooperative sitter will happily fill in the blanks.

The other point is that local, 'ad in the newsagent window', psychics often get a fair proportion of new clients by referral from current customers. So the sitter says "I wonder if you could see a friend of mine sometime...", and it's perfectly natural for the psychic to respond with a few 'innocent', casual questions - "Is this someone you know from work?", or whatever. The psychic already has a bit of groundwork to use, without the need for any serious research.

[Cuddles]

No, but I do find this exercise useful when examining grandiose or throwaway statements. Just a way of unpicking things to get at the truth, really. For example, say we set our movie in 1978, pre-internet, what is our guy doing for his hot-readings then? Matt will say 'utilising a broad range of techniques', but how on earth do we show that on screen? We have to have him 'doing' something. What is he doing?

The trouble with this approach is that it assumes it's possible to make them look good on screen. The reason so many people believe in psychics in the first place is that they don't understand just how easy it is to be fooled, either by other people or by yourself. Even when someone is proven to have used shills in the audience with radios to give the reader information, or that a cold reading session didn't actually contain any hits, people still carry on believing because they think that while it might happen sometimes, that sort of thing can't possibly account for their personal experiences. You will never get a generally believable screenplay showing a psychic at work, because people just won't accept that it applies to them.

[Mulder]

The media can never quite bring themselves to portray psychics as out and out frauds in movies (unless someone here knows better). I think they're afraid they'll turn off the audience who mostly believe. They may well be right! So, I doubt any such screenplay would ever be made, however credible it might appear.

[bobdezon]

The only bad psychic (no pun intended) Ive ever seen on film, was the fraud who tried to get Claire to sell her baby in an episode of Lost. People pay for belief, and nobodywill make a movie about fraudulent psychics unless there is a great deal of money involved for them. Psychics are a con, and have been for a long time. They fill a niche in society, even way back in the days of the "oracle of delphi".

[Mongrel]

The media can never quite bring themselves to portray psychics as out and out frauds in movies (unless someone here knows better). I think they're afraid they'll turn off the audience who mostly believe. They may well be right! So, I doubt any such screenplay would ever be made, however credible it might appear.

They sort of did it with Psych (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0491738/) ;)

[Mulder]

I've never seen Psych. Do they ever imply that all psychics are fake or that there are 'genuine' ones out there?

[Mongrel]

I've never seen Psych. Do they ever imply that all psychics are fake or that there are 'genuine' ones out there?

All fake and that the effect can be replicated by an observant person :smiley:

[Mulder]

It doesn't sound as radical as the screenplay we were considering above. I notice, also, that it's a comedy, so the audience don't have to take it 'seriously'.

I think it unlikely that a serious film or TV drama series would ever star someone who made their living as a psychic and was apparently impressively good, only to be revealed - maybe just to the viewers - as a complete fake. And further, that it would be implied that all their fellow psychics were fakes too and their clients gullible.

Too many members of the audience would feel it was unrealistic. I get the same feeling when watching a programme about a psychic who, inevitably, is always right about almost everything. It is so different to my own experience of psychics (where they are wrong about everything) that I am too annoyed to watch such programmes.

[Mongrel]

It doesn't sound as radical as the screenplay we were considering above. I notice, also, that it's a comedy, so the audience don't have to take it 'seriously'.

But it can be easier to slip an 'uncomfortable' subject in through comedy than drama

[Mulder]

But it can be easier to slip an 'uncomfortable' subject in through comedy than drama

I totally agree but it leaves a 'get out clause'. As a comedy, 'believer' viewers can enjoy it while still saying 'it's just a bit of fun but real genuine psychics are quite different ...'.

It's a pity that no one pointed out to viewers, for instance, that Most Haunted was 'just entertainment'. As a result most viewers took it completely seriously. The way something is pitched to the audience makes all the difference to how it is perceived.

[Nasib]

Bad Psychics has several transcripts of Gordon Smith readings were he employs simple cold reading techniques.

Correction: Bad Psychics has several transcripts of Gordon Smith readings where it is [erroneously] assumed that he is employing cold-reading tricks and implied that these are the methods he uses in order to con people into believing that he is in touch with their deceased relatives. If this were the case, what, pray, might be his motive? Certainly not for monetary gain, as his readings are given freely, without charge, and only to those in obvious need of comfort and confirmation.
Bad Psychic members clearly have difficulty in differentiating between the entertainment aspects of professional mentalists/magicians - and the selfless practices of a genuine medium.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Correction: Bad Psychics has several transcripts of Gordon Smith readings where it is [erroneously] assumed that he is employing cold-reading tricks and implied that these are the methods he uses in order to con people into believing that he is in touch with their deceased relatives. If this were the case, what, pray, might be his motive? Certainly not for monetary gain, as his readings are given freely, without charge, and only to those in obvious need of comfort and confirmation.
Bad Psychic members clearly have difficulty in differentiating between the entertainment aspects of professional mentalists/magicians - and the selfless practices of a genuine medium.

Bollocks, if after reading everything there is about how con artists like Smith work, and you still believe he is doing it by talking to spirits, you are clearly extremely confused.

Here's another one posted today:

http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=784

What parts of that analysis don't you agree with?

Smith doesn't do it for the money? How about this?


An Evening with Gordon Smith
Kirkham
Ticket Price: £12.00 (including book)
Second ticket: £7.00 (without book)

One-Day Intermediate Workshop
Strengthening Your Psychic Skills and Mastering Mediumship
with Gordon Smith and Mary Armour
London
Ticket Price: £75.00

An Evening of Mediumship with Gordon Smith
Bristol
Ticket Price: £20.00

An Evening of Mediumship with Gordon Smith
Kings Lynn
Ticket Price: £20.00

An Evening of Mediumship with Gordon Smith
Irvine
Ticket Price: £20.00

An Evening of Mediumship with Gordon Smith
Leamington Spa
Ticket Price: £20.00 (allocated



His books aren't free either.

Wake up and stop swallowing the gullible pills.

[Mongrel]

Not forgetting the onus is in CF (or his supporters) to prove that he's not using Cold reading techniques.

[SimonC]

If this were the case, what, pray, might be his motive?

Self promotion. Those books aren't just going to walk off the shelves in Waterstones...

[Nasib]

He doesn't need self-promotion; he has been giving such readings for many years, long before Hayhouse got him in their clutches.

[Nasib]

His books aren't free either.

Well, for goodness sake, of course the books aren't free - and if you take the trouble to actually read some of them you might get some sort of insight into just what it is he does, including why and how he does it.

[Nasib]

Smith doesn't do it for the money? How about this?


His recent South Africa tour:
Gordon had a great tour (http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/gordon-smith-s-south-africa-tour-t446.html#) of South Africa recently, despite missing his flight (http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/gordon-smith-s-south-africa-tour-t446.html#) there! He appeared on a popular TV show called Spirit (http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/gordon-smith-s-south-africa-tour-t446.html#) Sundae alongside an African Elder who 'speaks' to ancestors.

Gordon also appeared on popular TV talk show 3-Talk with Noeleen where he conducted on-air readings (http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/gordon-smith-s-south-africa-tour-t446.html#) for 45 minutes. The switchboard for the show recorded just over 15,000 calls during the show!

During his South African tour Gordon filmed an hour-long interview in Cape Town with a local spiritual TV show (http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/gordon-smith-s-south-africa-tour-t446.html#) Free Spirit, due to air later this year, as well as a number of radio, newspaper and magazine interviews.

The highlights of the tour were the three events that Gordon hosted in Johannesburg, Cape Town and Durban, all of which were sold out. Many incredible readings came through as well as an extraordinary number of animals (http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/gordon-smith-s-south-africa-tour-t446.html#). Gordon's Advanced Mediumship and Psychic Awareness Workshop in Johannesburg was a great success with all proceeds being donated to NOAH (Nurturing Orphans of AIDS (http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/gordon-smith-s-south-africa-tour-t446.html#) for Humanity).
.

[bindeweede]

Thanks for quoting "Kitkat".

[Nasib]

Thanks for quoting "Kitkat".

I am Kitkat :smiley:

[bindeweede]

I am Kitkat :smiley:

Well, I do tend to be a bit on the slow side.:-[

k-eyed and rainswabs here

Sounds like you had a great night!

[bobdezon]

Correction: Bad Psychics has several transcripts of Gordon Smith readings


This is true.


where it is [erroneously]


If you are asserting that the possibility he is cold reading is incorrect, then you are very much mistaken. You must admit that he is indeed possibly using cold reading. If he is not, then why are his methods identical to simple cold reading?


assumed that he is employing cold-reading tricks

If it walks like a duck.....................


and implied that these are the methods he uses in order to con people into believing that he is in touch with their deceased relatives.

You make this sound like a bad thing? Of course BP implies he is using cold reading, because unless he actually admits it, then nobody can be 100% sure can they? He could indeed have some superduper Zomg! speshul pwahz, but the evidence for this is yet to manifest itself. He has done nothing different from any other cold reader.

If this were the case, what, pray, might be his motive?

Money, greed, ego, sex, fame or any other basic human desire. Do you think Gorden is some jesus type figure who is completely selfless? Please ::)

Certainly not for monetary gain, as his readings are given freely, without charge, and only to those in obvious need of comfort and confirmation.

Bullshit and you know it, he makes a lot of money from aftersales and promotions.

Bad Psychic members clearly have difficulty in differentiating between the entertainment aspects of professional mentalists/magicians - and the selfless practices of a genuine medium.

Yes, BP do, because there have never been any "geniune mediums" discovered to make a valid comparison. Unless you know a "real one", and can provide evidence that this person exists (who will then be tested etc)

Seriously, please try harder. O0

[Anthrax]

theres an episode of south park called the biggest douche in the universe that actually shows how those techniques are done in a simple and funny way

[Matt]

Hi Nasib,

You're right of course, the bad psychics analysis doesn't prove that Gordon's reading contained no psychic elements. However it does prove that any effects were added to by using by non-psychic approaches categorised as cold reading. This can be done unconciously or by accident so there's no need to impugn Gordon's integrity at this stage.

However what it does change one thing. The burden of proof is with Gordon. If he claims he's psychic then the proof must come from him. Without considering the possibility of Cold Reading such readings contribute to this proof. We still wouldn't know if he were a medium, clairvoyant or mind reader, but would know that he had some strange source of information. However if cold reading is considered it provides a potential source of information, the sitter. That reading is therefore no longer evidence for the supernatural, and we're back to square one with Gordon still to provide reliable evidence for his powers.

The question we should ask ourselves is one of human nature. If he could provide such evidence would he? Or would he rather devote his time to the many people whose existing faith in the suprnatural means they require a lower standard of proof.

[bobdezon]

Well said Matt. O0

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

.

I apologise for my slightly agressive tone last night. Hung over and sleep deprived. :undecided:

Gordon may be involved in charity work, and if that is the case then I applaud him for it.

Whether or not he is involved in charity work is irrelevant when considering if he has genuine psychic powers or not. It is also irrelevant when considering if he makes money from his psychic career.

People do charity work for different reasons. Some do it because the want to. Some do it because the charity wants a famous name. Some do it because they want their name associated with a charity. I'm not suggesting Gordon Smith is anything other than the first option by the way.

Gordon may not always have made much money from his activities, I couldn't tell you or not because I don't follow him particularly closely. What he will have been doing is the groundwork to get him to the stage where he can make a good income from it. That's the way it works in the arts - you can spend years grafting before getting the breaks. And I believe GS is nothing but a performer.

If he is more than that, there is no evidence in the public domain which indicates that he is genuinely psychic. Every reading which has been analysed reverts to cold/hot reading.

I specifically posted an analysis of one of his readings on the Spiritlove forum because it was requested - but there was zero feedback. I don't think people want to see through Gordon's tricks. Once a believer in him, always a believer as far as I can see.

[JonDonnis]

I love it how people moan about my site, but do it on other sites.
At least the very clever guys here at UKS can defend BP and sceptism.

As for Gordon Smith, anyone who thinks he doesnt earn a fortune is a fool.

In fact just recently he appeared on Greek TV where Psychiatrist Dr. Daskalopoulos accused Smith of Immoral Tactics

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yr7zB27NfvQ

Unfortunately my Greek is very poor, and on top of that I only know Cypriot style Greek, and this doctor is proper Greek, so makes it even harder for me, I have asked a collegue of mine who works as a teacher in Cyprus to translate it all for me, when/if that gets done i will post full transcript on the site, anyway fun to watch GS squirm

[Nasib]

I love it how people moan about my site, but do it on other sites.

The selective censorship on BP makes it rather difficult for some to partake in reasonable discussion there.

In fact just recently he appeared on Greek TV where Psychiatrist Dr. Daskalopoulos accused Smith of Immoral Tactics

This rather fortifies my point somewhat of unfounded assumptions being thrown out without the facts, don't you think. Opinions already being bandied around when the contents of this clip are not yet known. ::)
(For all we know [so far] this Dr Daskalopoulos could be discussing the price of cabbage)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yr7zB27NfvQ

Unfortunately my Greek is very poor, and on top of that I only know Cypriot style Greek, and this doctor is proper Greek, so makes it even harder for me, I have asked a collegue of mine who works as a teacher in Cyprus to translate it all for me, when/if that gets done i will post full transcript on the site, anyway fun to watch GS squirm

Just a thought, but it might be a sensible idea to ask the YouTube poster, Goselos, for a translation?

[Matt]

Hi Nasib,

I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from here.

Just a thought, but it might be a sensible idea to ask the YouTube poster, Goselos, for a translation?

That's Goselos who wrote the following description of the clip on You tube?

Psychiatrist Dr. Daskalopoulos speaks with "psychic" Gordon Smith, live on ANT1 TV ("Tatiana Stefanidou") and accuses the so called "medium" of immoral tactics. Video in Greek, 14-5-2008

To be fair it would seem that this is where Jon is getting his preliminary information so the assumption that Smith is accused of "immoral tactics" isn't really unfounded.

Given that and the fact that Jon says he does speak some Greek and has presumably watched the clip he posted, isn't saying that "the contents of the clip are not yet known" a bit of an unfounded assumption itself?

Maybe I've misunderstood you or you didn't notice the clip description on you tube.

[Nasib]

Yes, I've seen 'Goselos's' description. There's also another posting of same clip, a slightly longer version, where 'Goselos' has written a similar description. Note also that 'someone' ;) has already put out a request for a translation on both clips, and that request has been up for some time.
All I was suggesting was that going by his/her description, the said 'Goselos' would appear to be in the know as to the contents and therefore the best person to ask?
All the better if Jon is able to get a translation - but he did say "when/if", so that's not a definite.

[brettdbass]

Is this thread about Colin Fry at all, any more?

Just asking, like...

[Nasib]

In fact just recently he appeared on Greek TV where Psychiatrist Dr. Daskalopoulos accused Smith of Immoral Tactics

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yr7zB27NfvQ



Thanks to JonDonnis, who did indeed manage to get a transcript; available here: http://spiritlove.freeforums.org/post9360.html#9360 - with feedback.

The content is not on the 'price of cabbage', but you can judge for yourself whether the presumptuous accusations in this instance of "immoral tactics" on the part of Gordon Smith were justified or not.

[Meglos]

May be Mr Fry operates in the same way as the 'pyscic barber'. Now if you want a personnel reading with the canny scot, you need to fill in an online form stating the reasons you think you deserve a reading. What if audiance members have to do something similiar... Perhaps oh my mother has recently died in a car crash; or she died from lung cancer etc. People would be likely to give all sorts of tit-bits in an attempt to get on the show. Others may write in to the producers there's all sorts of ways the trumpet man could gleam infomation without 'contacting' the spirit world.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I've transcribed a couple of Gordon Smith's videos for BadPsychics. He's not afraid to partake in a bit of hot reading when it suits him. They're all the same.

[Nasib]

I've transcribed a couple of Gordon Smith's videos for BadPsychics. He's not afraid to partake in a bit of hot reading when it suits him.

Farside, you KNOW that that's not true >:-), and you have no evidence to back up what you're implying there. Why don't you add "in my opinion" to that statement.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Ok, IN MY OPINION, in heavily edited videos, in a professional studio environment, where two separate couples are pre-booked to appear in the videos, where the two couples disclose some personal facts to camera before the reading, where the names and addresses and reasons for being there are already known, the only accurate details that Gordon Smith can reveal are those which can be easily obtained from information already known about the people getting the reading.

Derren Brown does it a lot more convincingly.

[hilary shinclair]

You only have to see one of these people perform live to realise how much they rely on editing and hot reading when there're in the studio. Derek Acorah is the best example of this: his live performances are utterly rubbish. When he's in the studio he does appear to have magical powers but thats mostly down to Derek cheating.